some things about grief
in [Grief]
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From: NotYet1121 on 4 Aug 2008 14:59 On Aug 3, 12:22 pm, "Daisy" <sweetdaisy67...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Josh reminds me so much of my Buster, always laughing and finding the good > in everything he touches...it amazes me to think of them both together now > and having the time of their lives....makes me smile, I especially liked the > "wilson" cake....it made me smile. Thanks for sharing his website with us, > it really did make my day. > > -- > Daisy"NotYet1121" <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:c193faeb-60a2-4405-8780-c3bc3de473fa(a)k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 31, 2:55 am, MelMenzies <aut...(a)melmenzies.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 30, 5:58 am, NotYet1121 <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 27, 11:28 pm, hppyhe...(a)webtv.net (hppy heart) wrote: > > > > > Some things about grief... > > > > > is that it comes when it wants to, as if it was an invited and honored > > > > guest. It's entrance is like a haughty debutante. > > > > > is that it comes like a sneak thief without warning to take what it > > > > pleases. It has had it's sites on us and we can't always do anything > > > > to > > > > stop it. > > > > > is that it usually is about death, but that it also is about so many > > > > other things. A loss is a loss and non-death losses can be life > > > > altering and recycle themselves over and over. They don't diminish > > > > anyone elses death losses. > > > > > is that the loss of other things (not material things), especially > > > > when > > > > compounded by a death don't really make us hurt worse but rather > > > > interfere with the other grief and makes it harder to live or survive > > > > with. > > > > > is that grief has the strongest memory. > > > > > The losses I've had have all hurt, with some still hurting in ways too > > > > numerous to number. Two in particular, which are related in ways odd > > > > to > > > > others, but important to me have been the worst for me. They took > > > > place > > > > 20 years apart and each can at times make me as emotional as the day > > > > they ocurred. The more recent one, almost 6 years ago ocurred on the > > > > heels of 3 other deaths in the same year and also had other grief > > > > issues > > > > tied to it which felt as profound as death for me. The amount of pain > > > > sometimes seems so unbearable yet I survive it. I don't understand > > > > it, > > > > yet on another level I do. > > > > > Many things dredge up that which has sunk to the depths of grief, > > > > words > > > > or behaviors of others, certain dates, news stories, a sound, a > > > > song... > > > > and the pain feels fresh all over again. For me one of the recent > > > > things has been a "friend" whose daughter died. She and her husband > > > > have avoided talking to me or really anyone else from what I've heard. > > > > My condolence card was left unopened and unread, my emails have been > > > > ignored. After months of this I don't know what to think about our > > > > old > > > > "friendship" but the worst part is that it has dredged up and added to > > > > the pain. Here is not one, but two losses... one from death, one not, > > > > but very painful. I know its selfish... but none the less painful. > > > > > I've tried to be patient, but have worried about the well-being of > > > > someone I called a friend who seems unable to even acknowledge her > > > > grief > > > > by not acknowledging her "friends" who would dearly love to support > > > > her > > > > in anyway she asks. If she doesn't want to talk about her daughter, > > > > fine... thats in her own time. Some of my grief has stayed with me > > > > because people -didn't- want to talk about who I lost. > > > > > I don't know what to think, or do, or feel - anything but hurt, and > > > > sometimes anger. > > > > > I am not asking for advice.... just venting how I feel about all this > > > > crazy pain. It's the only way I have to deal with it. As has been > > > > said > > > > before on this board.... people sometimes just don't know what to say. > > > > To All: > > > > I agree that no one's pain is worse than anothers. I am sorry if I > > > sounded that way. I just know that losing my son is the worst possible > > > thing in the world and is unlike all the other real pain from losing > > > other people I love. I do not mean to minimize anyone's grief. For > > > truly each loss of someone that you love is unique and we all grieve > > > differently and yet the same. Love is Stronger than Death! > > > > Josh's Mom > > > Dear Josh's Mum, > > > What I wrote was not in any way a 'ticking off' anyone comparing their > > pain with anyone else's. So you have no need to apologise. On the > > contrary, I was simply sharing some thoughts aloud, and realised, as I > > wrote, that we all tend to compare our loss with that of others. It's > > human nature to think that no one can possibly comprehend My Pain - > > because it's worse than anything anyone else has ever experienced. > > > Of course it is. It's worse because it's Mine. And that makes it the > > ONLY pain that I can feel this deeply. > > > But what I was wondering was, does it actually help me to make this > > comparison? Yes, it's human nature to do so. But perhaps I might > > find my pain more bearable if I turned it round the other way and > > though - this is how other people feel too. What can I do to use my > > experience to help others. And that, my friends, is what we're doing > > here, isn't it? Helping each other. Hugging each other. > > > Interestingly, the Arthritis Care people have just e-mailed me about > > Challenging physical pain. It says it's a drug free way of managing > > pain, and that it's really working. Sounds to me very similar to what > > I'm trying to say about emotional pain. Here's what it says: > > > What is Challenging Pain? > > The Challenging Pain course is run by specially trained volunteers who > > have experience of chronic pain. Together, they help participants > > work through specially designed exercises that give people tools to > > manage their pain and help work their way towards creating a better > > quality of life. > > When people start the Challenging Pain course they set a long-term > > goal, something they would like to do but cant do at the moment. It > > can be something simple but essential - like walking to the shop - or > > a big life change like returning to work. > > > I'll see if I can find out more and whether it's helpful to us. > > Love to all, Melwww.melmenzies.co.uk > > Mel: > > For me, I believe I always had great compassion for others. However, > since my son died, I believe that I have so much more empathy, > sympathy, compassion, and tears for those who are grieving. It's like > we all have this super vision when we look across the room into > other's eyes and we can see the pain and the hurt and the grief where > maybe they had a mask on and many couldn't see. In a strange way it is > like immediately feeling like you have a sister or a brother when we > see that pain and we understand that we are the ones to comfort all > the others that are also going through this journey of grief. Yes it > helps to share and talk and we benefit and they help us but it truly > helps me to help others. It doesn't make any difference if the pain is > due to someone whose Mom died or Dad died or husband died or child > died or best friend died. It is the fact that the person is grieving > because they lost a true loved one to death. You asked if it would > help you to make the comparison as to comparing others pain to yours. > Actually I don't think that is human nature - I do think it is a > recognition that the pain is real, yet unique to each one of us. I > think in our hearts we just want to comfort and be there for the other > person in pain. I think this because we are so acutely aware that this > pain is so horrific. > > Josh's Mom > 5-25-1978 to 11-25-2005 27 years old and 6 months almost to the > minute of his death. > jumped from the 14th floor of a parking garage > My heart, my soul > > Love is Stronger than Death! www.JoshuaGoddard.com He made his > own website 6 months before he > died. It is > about his life, not his death. > He had no > signs of depression or mental > illness. He > paid for this site until 2012. > I think all > the problems, all at > once,were > the"PERFECT > STORM". No one saw any signs. Mel and Daisy: Thank you from the bottom of my heart to go to my son's website. Thank you for the kind words about how wonderful he was/is. It truly touches me so much. Mel - yes his poems are very dark. I had not seen any of them prior to his death. What I had seen did give me cause for concern and when checking with others they assured me that it was just part of the goth type stuff. Even though he was not goth. His younger sister was very goth at that time and he was very close to her and the music they listened to - I didn't know and I should have known. He was so full of life and always happy and positive - in these poems he leaves behind they tell me of how he felt and it breaks my heart he ever felt so sad. I so wish I had seen these poems prior to his death. As a parent - no matter how old your child is - we try to protect them. I do feel guilty I did not know. I feel certain had I known - I would have saved him. Yes to your answer about losing a girlfriend. She was married and he felt very betrayed by her lies. I don't think that was the trigger though. I know my fight with him was the trigger. I do know he forgives me and that he is in a good place now. Knowing that still doesn't make it any easier to live with though. I believe that he wants me to continue to live and not dwell on his death but remember his life. I believe that in doing that and honoring him that it also helps him to do the healing and the learning that he needs to do on the other side. Again, thank you so much for going to his website. It means so much to me. Love Josh's Mom
From: Daisy on 4 Aug 2008 20:41 Lynn please believe me and we've spoken about this, your fight with Josh was NOT the trigger to his passing...... He was so much like my Buster, for he too wrote poetry like Josh did, the same style, words etc......I bet they both liked the same music bands as well. Love ya girlfriend! -- Daisy "NotYet1121" <NotYet1121(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:53416290-34ba-4ee5-bd43-2f53d6c87fc8(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... On Aug 3, 12:22 pm, "Daisy" <sweetdaisy67...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Josh reminds me so much of my Buster, always laughing and finding the good > in everything he touches...it amazes me to think of them both together now > and having the time of their lives....makes me smile, I especially liked > the > "wilson" cake....it made me smile. Thanks for sharing his website with > us, > it really did make my day. > > -- > Daisy"NotYet1121" <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:c193faeb-60a2-4405-8780-c3bc3de473fa(a)k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 31, 2:55 am, MelMenzies <aut...(a)melmenzies.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 30, 5:58 am, NotYet1121 <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 27, 11:28 pm, hppyhe...(a)webtv.net (hppy heart) wrote: > > > > > Some things about grief... > > > > > is that it comes when it wants to, as if it was an invited and > > > > honored > > > > guest. It's entrance is like a haughty debutante. > > > > > is that it comes like a sneak thief without warning to take what it > > > > pleases. It has had it's sites on us and we can't always do > > > > anything > > > > to > > > > stop it. > > > > > is that it usually is about death, but that it also is about so many > > > > other things. A loss is a loss and non-death losses can be life > > > > altering and recycle themselves over and over. They don't diminish > > > > anyone elses death losses. > > > > > is that the loss of other things (not material things), especially > > > > when > > > > compounded by a death don't really make us hurt worse but rather > > > > interfere with the other grief and makes it harder to live or > > > > survive > > > > with. > > > > > is that grief has the strongest memory. > > > > > The losses I've had have all hurt, with some still hurting in ways > > > > too > > > > numerous to number. Two in particular, which are related in ways > > > > odd > > > > to > > > > others, but important to me have been the worst for me. They took > > > > place > > > > 20 years apart and each can at times make me as emotional as the day > > > > they ocurred. The more recent one, almost 6 years ago ocurred on > > > > the > > > > heels of 3 other deaths in the same year and also had other grief > > > > issues > > > > tied to it which felt as profound as death for me. The amount of > > > > pain > > > > sometimes seems so unbearable yet I survive it. I don't understand > > > > it, > > > > yet on another level I do. > > > > > Many things dredge up that which has sunk to the depths of grief, > > > > words > > > > or behaviors of others, certain dates, news stories, a sound, a > > > > song... > > > > and the pain feels fresh all over again. For me one of the recent > > > > things has been a "friend" whose daughter died. She and her husband > > > > have avoided talking to me or really anyone else from what I've > > > > heard. > > > > My condolence card was left unopened and unread, my emails have been > > > > ignored. After months of this I don't know what to think about our > > > > old > > > > "friendship" but the worst part is that it has dredged up and added > > > > to > > > > the pain. Here is not one, but two losses... one from death, one > > > > not, > > > > but very painful. I know its selfish... but none the less painful. > > > > > I've tried to be patient, but have worried about the well-being of > > > > someone I called a friend who seems unable to even acknowledge her > > > > grief > > > > by not acknowledging her "friends" who would dearly love to support > > > > her > > > > in anyway she asks. If she doesn't want to talk about her daughter, > > > > fine... thats in her own time. Some of my grief has stayed with me > > > > because people -didn't- want to talk about who I lost. > > > > > I don't know what to think, or do, or feel - anything but hurt, and > > > > sometimes anger. > > > > > I am not asking for advice.... just venting how I feel about all > > > > this > > > > crazy pain. It's the only way I have to deal with it. As has been > > > > said > > > > before on this board.... people sometimes just don't know what to > > > > say. > > > > To All: > > > > I agree that no one's pain is worse than anothers. I am sorry if I > > > sounded that way. I just know that losing my son is the worst possible > > > thing in the world and is unlike all the other real pain from losing > > > other people I love. I do not mean to minimize anyone's grief. For > > > truly each loss of someone that you love is unique and we all grieve > > > differently and yet the same. Love is Stronger than Death! > > > > Josh's Mom > > > Dear Josh's Mum, > > > What I wrote was not in any way a 'ticking off' anyone comparing their > > pain with anyone else's. So you have no need to apologise. On the > > contrary, I was simply sharing some thoughts aloud, and realised, as I > > wrote, that we all tend to compare our loss with that of others. It's > > human nature to think that no one can possibly comprehend My Pain - > > because it's worse than anything anyone else has ever experienced. > > > Of course it is. It's worse because it's Mine. And that makes it the > > ONLY pain that I can feel this deeply. > > > But what I was wondering was, does it actually help me to make this > > comparison? Yes, it's human nature to do so. But perhaps I might > > find my pain more bearable if I turned it round the other way and > > though - this is how other people feel too. What can I do to use my > > experience to help others. And that, my friends, is what we're doing > > here, isn't it? Helping each other. Hugging each other. > > > Interestingly, the Arthritis Care people have just e-mailed me about > > Challenging physical pain. It says it's a drug free way of managing > > pain, and that it's really working. Sounds to me very similar to what > > I'm trying to say about emotional pain. Here's what it says: > > > What is Challenging Pain? > > The Challenging Pain course is run by specially trained volunteers who > > have experience of chronic pain. Together, they help participants > > work through specially designed exercises that give people tools to > > manage their pain and help work their way towards creating a better > > quality of life. > > When people start the Challenging Pain course they set a long-term > > goal, something they would like to do but can�t do at the moment. It > > can be something simple but essential - like walking to the shop - or > > a big life change like returning to work. > > > I'll see if I can find out more and whether it's helpful to us. > > Love to all, Melwww.melmenzies.co.uk > > Mel: > > For me, I believe I always had great compassion for others. However, > since my son died, I believe that I have so much more empathy, > sympathy, compassion, and tears for those who are grieving. It's like > we all have this super vision when we look across the room into > other's eyes and we can see the pain and the hurt and the grief where > maybe they had a mask on and many couldn't see. In a strange way it is > like immediately feeling like you have a sister or a brother when we > see that pain and we understand that we are the ones to comfort all > the others that are also going through this journey of grief. Yes it > helps to share and talk and we benefit and they help us but it truly > helps me to help others. It doesn't make any difference if the pain is > due to someone whose Mom died or Dad died or husband died or child > died or best friend died. It is the fact that the person is grieving > because they lost a true loved one to death. You asked if it would > help you to make the comparison as to comparing others pain to yours. > Actually I don't think that is human nature - I do think it is a > recognition that the pain is real, yet unique to each one of us. I > think in our hearts we just want to comfort and be there for the other > person in pain. I think this because we are so acutely aware that this > pain is so horrific. > > Josh's Mom > 5-25-1978 to 11-25-2005 27 years old and 6 months almost to the > minute of his death. > jumped from the 14th floor of a parking garage > My heart, my soul > > Love is Stronger than Death! www.JoshuaGoddard.com He made his > own website 6 months before he > died. It is > about his life, not his death. > He had no > signs of depression or mental > illness. He > paid for this site until 2012. > I think all > the problems, all at > once,were > the"PERFECT > STORM". No one saw any signs. Mel and Daisy: Thank you from the bottom of my heart to go to my son's website. Thank you for the kind words about how wonderful he was/is. It truly touches me so much. Mel - yes his poems are very dark. I had not seen any of them prior to his death. What I had seen did give me cause for concern and when checking with others they assured me that it was just part of the goth type stuff. Even though he was not goth. His younger sister was very goth at that time and he was very close to her and the music they listened to - I didn't know and I should have known. He was so full of life and always happy and positive - in these poems he leaves behind they tell me of how he felt and it breaks my heart he ever felt so sad. I so wish I had seen these poems prior to his death. As a parent - no matter how old your child is - we try to protect them. I do feel guilty I did not know. I feel certain had I known - I would have saved him. Yes to your answer about losing a girlfriend. She was married and he felt very betrayed by her lies. I don't think that was the trigger though. I know my fight with him was the trigger. I do know he forgives me and that he is in a good place now. Knowing that still doesn't make it any easier to live with though. I believe that he wants me to continue to live and not dwell on his death but remember his life. I believe that in doing that and honoring him that it also helps him to do the healing and the learning that he needs to do on the other side. Again, thank you so much for going to his website. It means so much to me. Love Josh's Mom
From: MelMenzies on 5 Aug 2008 18:10 On Aug 5, 1:41 am, "Daisy" <sweetdaisy67...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Lynn please believe me and we've spoken about this, your fight with Josh was > NOT the trigger to his passing...... > > He was so much like my Buster, for he too wrote poetry like Josh did, the > same style, words etc......I bet they both liked the same music bands as > well. Love ya girlfriend! > > -- > Daisy"NotYet1121" <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:53416290-34ba-4ee5-bd43-2f53d6c87fc8(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > On Aug 3, 12:22 pm, "Daisy" <sweetdaisy67...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > Josh reminds me so much of my Buster, always laughing and finding the good > > in everything he touches...it amazes me to think of them both together now > > and having the time of their lives....makes me smile, I especially liked > > the > > "wilson" cake....it made me smile. Thanks for sharing his website with > > us, > > it really did make my day. > > > -- > > Daisy"NotYet1121" <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:c193faeb-60a2-4405-8780-c3bc3de473fa(a)k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com.... > > On Jul 31, 2:55 am, MelMenzies <aut...(a)melmenzies.co.uk> wrote: > > > > On Jul 30, 5:58 am, NotYet1121 <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 27, 11:28 pm, hppyhe...(a)webtv.net (hppy heart) wrote: > > > > > > Some things about grief... > > > > > > is that it comes when it wants to, as if it was an invited and > > > > > honored > > > > > guest. It's entrance is like a haughty debutante. > > > > > > is that it comes like a sneak thief without warning to take what it > > > > > pleases. It has had it's sites on us and we can't always do > > > > > anything > > > > > to > > > > > stop it. > > > > > > is that it usually is about death, but that it also is about so many > > > > > other things. A loss is a loss and non-death losses can be life > > > > > altering and recycle themselves over and over. They don't diminish > > > > > anyone elses death losses. > > > > > > is that the loss of other things (not material things), especially > > > > > when > > > > > compounded by a death don't really make us hurt worse but rather > > > > > interfere with the other grief and makes it harder to live or > > > > > survive > > > > > with. > > > > > > is that grief has the strongest memory. > > > > > > The losses I've had have all hurt, with some still hurting in ways > > > > > too > > > > > numerous to number. Two in particular, which are related in ways > > > > > odd > > > > > to > > > > > others, but important to me have been the worst for me. They took > > > > > place > > > > > 20 years apart and each can at times make me as emotional as the day > > > > > they ocurred. The more recent one, almost 6 years ago ocurred on > > > > > the > > > > > heels of 3 other deaths in the same year and also had other grief > > > > > issues > > > > > tied to it which felt as profound as death for me. The amount of > > > > > pain > > > > > sometimes seems so unbearable yet I survive it. I don't understand > > > > > it, > > > > > yet on another level I do. > > > > > > Many things dredge up that which has sunk to the depths of grief, > > > > > words > > > > > or behaviors of others, certain dates, news stories, a sound, a > > > > > song... > > > > > and the pain feels fresh all over again. For me one of the recent > > > > > things has been a "friend" whose daughter died. She and her husband > > > > > have avoided talking to me or really anyone else from what I've > > > > > heard. > > > > > My condolence card was left unopened and unread, my emails have been > > > > > ignored. After months of this I don't know what to think about our > > > > > old > > > > > "friendship" but the worst part is that it has dredged up and added > > > > > to > > > > > the pain. Here is not one, but two losses... one from death, one > > > > > not, > > > > > but very painful. I know its selfish... but none the less painful. > > > > > > I've tried to be patient, but have worried about the well-being of > > > > > someone I called a friend who seems unable to even acknowledge her > > > > > grief > > > > > by not acknowledging her "friends" who would dearly love to support > > > > > her > > > > > in anyway she asks. If she doesn't want to talk about her daughter, > > > > > fine... thats in her own time. Some of my grief has stayed with me > > > > > because people -didn't- want to talk about who I lost. > > > > > > I don't know what to think, or do, or feel - anything but hurt, and > > > > > sometimes anger. > > > > > > I am not asking for advice.... just venting how I feel about all > > > > > this > > > > > crazy pain. It's the only way I have to deal with it. As has been > > > > > said > > > > > before on this board.... people sometimes just don't know what to > > > > > say. > > > > > To All: > > > > > I agree that no one's pain is worse than anothers. I am sorry if I > > > > sounded that way. I just know that losing my son is the worst possible > > > > thing in the world and is unlike all the other real pain from losing > > > > other people I love. I do not mean to minimize anyone's grief. For > > > > truly each loss of someone that you love is unique and we all grieve > > > > differently and yet the same. Love is Stronger than Death! > > > > > Josh's Mom > > > > Dear Josh's Mum, > > > > What I wrote was not in any way a 'ticking off' anyone comparing their > > > pain with anyone else's. So you have no need to apologise. On the > > > contrary, I was simply sharing some thoughts aloud, and realised, as I > > > wrote, that we all tend to compare our loss with that of others. It's > > > human nature to think that no one can possibly comprehend My Pain - > > > because it's worse than anything anyone else has ever experienced. > > > > Of course it is. It's worse because it's Mine. And that makes it the > > > ONLY pain that I can feel this deeply. > > > > But what I was wondering was, does it actually help me to make this > > > comparison? Yes, it's human nature to do so. But perhaps I might > > > find my pain more bearable if I turned it round the other way and > > > though - this is how other people feel too. What can I do to use my > > > experience to help others. And that, my friends, is what we're doing > > > here, isn't it? Helping each other. Hugging each other. > > > > Interestingly, the Arthritis Care people have just e-mailed me about > > > Challenging physical pain. It says it's a drug free way of managing > > > pain, and that it's really working. Sounds to me very similar to what > > > I'm trying to say about emotional pain. Here's what it says: > > > > What is Challenging Pain? > > > The Challenging Pain course is run by specially trained volunteers who > > > have experience of chronic pain. Together, they help participants > > > work through specially designed exercises that give people tools to > > > manage their pain and help work their way towards creating a better > > > quality of life. > > > When people start the Challenging Pain course they set a long-term > > > goal, something they would like to do but cant do at the moment. It > > > can be something simple but essential - like walking to the shop - or > > > a big life change like returning to work. > > > > I'll see if I can find out more and whether it's helpful to us. > > > Love to all, Melwww.melmenzies.co.uk > > > Mel: > > > For me, I believe I always had great compassion for others. However, > > since my son died, I believe that I have so much more empathy, > > sympathy, compassion, and tears for those who are grieving. It's like > > we all have this super vision when we look across the room into > > other's eyes and we can see the pain and the hurt and the grief where > > maybe they had a mask on and many couldn't see. In a strange way it is > > like immediately feeling like you have a sister or a brother when we > > see that pain and we understand that we are the ones to comfort all > > the others that are also going through this journey of grief. Yes it > > helps to share and talk and we benefit and they help us but it truly > > helps me to help others. It doesn't make any difference if the pain is > > due to someone whose Mom died or Dad died or husband died or child > > died or best friend died. It is the fact that the person is grieving > > because they lost a true loved one to death. You asked if it would > > help you to make the comparison as to comparing others pain to yours. > > Actually I don't think that is human nature - I do think it is a > > recognition that the pain is real, yet unique to each one of us. I > > think in our hearts we just want to comfort and be there for the other > > person in pain. I think this because we are so acutely aware that this > > pain is so horrific. > > > Josh's Mom > > 5-25-1978 to 11-25-2005 27 years old and 6 months almost to the > > minute of his death. > > jumped from the 14th floor of a parking garage > > My heart, my soul > > > Love is Stronger than Death! www.JoshuaGoddard.comHe made his > > own website 6 months before he > > died. It is > > about his life, not his death. > > He had no > > signs of depression or mental > > illness. He > > paid for this site until 2012. > > I think all > > the problems, all at > > once,were > > the"PERFECT > > STORM". No one saw any signs. > > Mel and Daisy: > > Thank you from the bottom of my heart to go to my son's website. Thank > you for the kind words about how wonderful he was/is. It truly touches > me so much. > > Mel - yes his poems are very dark. I had not seen any of them prior to > his death. What I had seen did give me cause for concern and when > checking with others they assured me that it was just part of the goth > type stuff. Even though he was not goth. His younger sister was very > goth at that time and he was very close to her and the music they > listened to - I didn't know and I should have known. He was so full of > life and always happy and positive - in these poems he leaves behind > they tell me of how he felt and it breaks my heart he ever felt so > sad. I so wish I had seen these poems prior to his death. ... > > read more » Dear Josh's mum, One of the symptoms of grief is guilt. Try not to blame yourself. We all have choices. And heartbreaking as it is, Josh's choice was to jump. Let the love you so obviously have for others fill your heart and mind, and that, I'm sure, will bring you healing. I'm praying for you. May I ask if you would be happy for me to bring Josh's website to a wider audience by including a link to it on my website http://www.melmenzies.co.uk It would be one way in which his death might bring help and hope to others.
From: NotYet1121 on 9 Aug 2008 07:06
On Aug 5, 5:10 pm, MelMenzies <aut...(a)melmenzies.co.uk> wrote: > On Aug 5, 1:41 am, "Daisy" <sweetdaisy67...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Lynn please believe me and we've spoken about this, your fight with Josh was > > NOT the trigger to his passing...... > > > He was so much like my Buster, for he too wrote poetry like Josh did, the > > same style, words etc......I bet they both liked the same music bands as > > well. Love ya girlfriend! > > > -- > > Daisy"NotYet1121" <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:53416290-34ba-4ee5-bd43-2f53d6c87fc8(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > > On Aug 3, 12:22 pm, "Daisy" <sweetdaisy67...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Josh reminds me so much of my Buster, always laughing and finding the good > > > in everything he touches...it amazes me to think of them both together now > > > and having the time of their lives....makes me smile, I especially liked > > > the > > > "wilson" cake....it made me smile. Thanks for sharing his website with > > > us, > > > it really did make my day. > > > > -- > > > Daisy"NotYet1121" <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > > > >news:c193faeb-60a2-4405-8780-c3bc3de473fa(a)k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com.... > > > On Jul 31, 2:55 am, MelMenzies <aut...(a)melmenzies.co.uk> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 30, 5:58 am, NotYet1121 <NotYet1...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 27, 11:28 pm, hppyhe...(a)webtv.net (hppy heart) wrote: > > > > > > > Some things about grief... > > > > > > > is that it comes when it wants to, as if it was an invited and > > > > > > honored > > > > > > guest. It's entrance is like a haughty debutante. > > > > > > > is that it comes like a sneak thief without warning to take what it > > > > > > pleases. It has had it's sites on us and we can't always do > > > > > > anything > > > > > > to > > > > > > stop it. > > > > > > > is that it usually is about death, but that it also is about so many > > > > > > other things. A loss is a loss and non-death losses can be life > > > > > > altering and recycle themselves over and over. They don't diminish > > > > > > anyone elses death losses. > > > > > > > is that the loss of other things (not material things), especially > > > > > > when > > > > > > compounded by a death don't really make us hurt worse but rather > > > > > > interfere with the other grief and makes it harder to live or > > > > > > survive > > > > > > with. > > > > > > > is that grief has the strongest memory. > > > > > > > The losses I've had have all hurt, with some still hurting in ways > > > > > > too > > > > > > numerous to number. Two in particular, which are related in ways > > > > > > odd > > > > > > to > > > > > > others, but important to me have been the worst for me. They took > > > > > > place > > > > > > 20 years apart and each can at times make me as emotional as the day > > > > > > they ocurred. The more recent one, almost 6 years ago ocurred on > > > > > > the > > > > > > heels of 3 other deaths in the same year and also had other grief > > > > > > issues > > > > > > tied to it which felt as profound as death for me. The amount of > > > > > > pain > > > > > > sometimes seems so unbearable yet I survive it. I don't understand > > > > > > it, > > > > > > yet on another level I do. > > > > > > > Many things dredge up that which has sunk to the depths of grief, > > > > > > words > > > > > > or behaviors of others, certain dates, news stories, a sound, a > > > > > > song... > > > > > > and the pain feels fresh all over again. For me one of the recent > > > > > > things has been a "friend" whose daughter died. She and her husband > > > > > > have avoided talking to me or really anyone else from what I've > > > > > > heard. > > > > > > My condolence card was left unopened and unread, my emails have been > > > > > > ignored. After months of this I don't know what to think about our > > > > > > old > > > > > > "friendship" but the worst part is that it has dredged up and added > > > > > > to > > > > > > the pain. Here is not one, but two losses... one from death, one > > > > > > not, > > > > > > but very painful. I know its selfish... but none the less painful. > > > > > > > I've tried to be patient, but have worried about the well-being of > > > > > > someone I called a friend who seems unable to even acknowledge her > > > > > > grief > > > > > > by not acknowledging her "friends" who would dearly love to support > > > > > > her > > > > > > in anyway she asks. If she doesn't want to talk about her daughter, > > > > > > fine... thats in her own time. Some of my grief has stayed with me > > > > > > because people -didn't- want to talk about who I lost. > > > > > > > I don't know what to think, or do, or feel - anything but hurt, and > > > > > > sometimes anger. > > > > > > > I am not asking for advice.... just venting how I feel about all > > > > > > this > > > > > > crazy pain. It's the only way I have to deal with it. As has been > > > > > > said > > > > > > before on this board.... people sometimes just don't know what to > > > > > > say. > > > > > > To All: > > > > > > I agree that no one's pain is worse than anothers. I am sorry if I > > > > > sounded that way. I just know that losing my son is the worst possible > > > > > thing in the world and is unlike all the other real pain from losing > > > > > other people I love. I do not mean to minimize anyone's grief. For > > > > > truly each loss of someone that you love is unique and we all grieve > > > > > differently and yet the same. Love is Stronger than Death! > > > > > > Josh's Mom > > > > > Dear Josh's Mum, > > > > > What I wrote was not in any way a 'ticking off' anyone comparing their > > > > pain with anyone else's. So you have no need to apologise. On the > > > > contrary, I was simply sharing some thoughts aloud, and realised, as I > > > > wrote, that we all tend to compare our loss with that of others. It's > > > > human nature to think that no one can possibly comprehend My Pain - > > > > because it's worse than anything anyone else has ever experienced. > > > > > Of course it is. It's worse because it's Mine. And that makes it the > > > > ONLY pain that I can feel this deeply. > > > > > But what I was wondering was, does it actually help me to make this > > > > comparison? Yes, it's human nature to do so. But perhaps I might > > > > find my pain more bearable if I turned it round the other way and > > > > though - this is how other people feel too. What can I do to use my > > > > experience to help others. And that, my friends, is what we're doing > > > > here, isn't it? Helping each other. Hugging each other. > > > > > Interestingly, the Arthritis Care people have just e-mailed me about > > > > Challenging physical pain. It says it's a drug free way of managing > > > > pain, and that it's really working. Sounds to me very similar to what > > > > I'm trying to say about emotional pain. Here's what it says: > > > > > What is Challenging Pain? > > > > The Challenging Pain course is run by specially trained volunteers who > > > > have experience of chronic pain. Together, they help participants > > > > work through specially designed exercises that give people tools to > > > > manage their pain and help work their way towards creating a better > > > > quality of life. > > > > When people start the Challenging Pain course they set a long-term > > > > goal, something they would like to do but cant do at the moment. It > > > > can be something simple but essential - like walking to the shop - or > > > > a big life change like returning to work. > > > > > I'll see if I can find out more and whether it's helpful to us. > > > > Love to all, Melwww.melmenzies.co.uk > > > > Mel: > > > > For me, I believe I always had great compassion for others. However, > > > since my son died, I believe that I have so much more empathy, > > > sympathy, compassion, and tears for those who are grieving. It's like > > > we all have this super vision when we look across the room into > > > other's eyes and we can see the pain and the hurt and the grief where > > > maybe they had a mask on and many couldn't see. In a strange way it is > > > like immediately feeling like you have a sister or a brother when we > > > see that pain and we understand that we are the ones to comfort all > > > the others that are also going through this journey of grief. Yes it > > > helps to share and talk and we benefit and they help us but it truly > > > helps me to help others. It doesn't make any difference if the pain is > > > due to someone whose Mom died or Dad died or husband died or child > > > died or best friend died. It is the fact that the person is grieving > > > because they lost a true loved one to death. You asked if it would > > > help you to make the comparison as to comparing others pain to yours. > > > Actually I don't think that is human nature - I do think it is a > > > recognition that the pain is real, yet unique to each one of us. I > > > think in our hearts we just want to comfort and be there for the other > > > person in pain. I think this because we are so acutely aware that this > > > pain is so horrific. > > > > Josh's Mom > > > 5-25-1978 to 11-25-2005 27 years old and 6 months almost to the > > > minute of his death. > > > jumped from the 14th floor of a parking garage > > > My heart, my soul > > > > Love is Stronger than Death! www.JoshuaGoddard.comHemade his > > > own website 6 months before he > > > died. It is > > > about his life, not his death. > > > He had no > > > signs of depression or mental > > > illness. He > > > paid for this site until 2012. > > > I think all > > > the problems, all at > > > once,were > > > the"PERFECT > > > STORM". No one saw any signs. > > > Mel and Daisy: > > > Thank you from the bottom of my heart to go to my son's website. Thank > > you for the kind words about how wonderful he was/is. It truly touches > > me so much. > > > Mel - yes his poems are very dark. I had not seen any of them prior to > > his death. What I had seen did give me cause for concern and when > > checking with others they assured me that it was just part of the goth > > type stuff. Even though he was not goth. His younger sister was very > > goth at that time and he was very close to her and the music they > > listened to - I didn't know and I should have known. He was so full of > > life and always happy and positive - in these poems he leaves behind > > they tell me of how he felt and it breaks my heart he ever felt so > > sad. I so wish I had seen these poems prior to his death. ... > > > read more » > > Dear Josh's mum, One of the symptoms of grief is guilt. Try not to > blame yourself. We all have choices. And heartbreaking as it is, > Josh's choice was to jump. Let the love you so obviously have for > others fill your heart and mind, and that, I'm sure, will bring you > healing. I'm praying for you. > May I ask if you would be happy for me to bring Josh's website to a > wider audience by including a link to it on my websitehttp://www.melmenzies.co.uk > It would be one way in which his death might bring help and hope to > others. I would love everyone in the world to read my son's words and see his pictures etc. So tell me more about this. How does this work and how can you do that, etc. Love Josh's Mom |