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From: Mr.Smartypants on 2 Aug 2008 07:05
On Aug 2, 4:22 pm, Rudy Canoza <pi...(a)thedismalscience.noot> wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 9:01 am, Rudy Canoza <pi...(a)thedismalscience.noot> wrote:
> >> Rupert wrote:
> >>> On Jul 31, 5:41 pm, Dutch <n...(a)email.com> wrote:
> >>>> Rupert wrote:
> >>>>> "Tu quoque" is the entire modus operandi of you guys. I'm pointing out
> >>>>> that you are not living up to the standards of ethical integrity which
> >>>>> you advocate. Nothing wrong with that.
> >>>> We're not the ones claiming to have the inside track
> >>>> on ethics. The never ending cycle of finger pointing
> >>>> was started by the vegan and it is the vegan who must
> >>>> end it.
> >>> Don't follow you. I didn't start any "finger pointing".
> >> It's implied in declaring oneself "vegan".  You're exalting yourself,
> >> claiming superior virtue, and point an accusing finger at meat eaters.
> >> That is inherent in the declaration.
>
> > When you declare yourself "libertarian" and claim that I am not,
>
> We're talking about your declaration that you're "vegan".  There is an
> implied accusation - finger-pointing - aimed at meat eaters in that
> declaration.-


Or maybe it's just your guilty conscience playing havoc with your
little crumb of a clown brain.

From: Rupert on 2 Aug 2008 19:37
On Aug 2, 4:22 pm, Rudy Canoza <pi...(a)thedismalscience.noot> wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 9:01 am, Rudy Canoza <pi...(a)thedismalscience.noot> wrote:
> >> Rupert wrote:
> >>> On Jul 31, 5:41 pm, Dutch <n...(a)email.com> wrote:
> >>>> Rupert wrote:
> >>>>> "Tu quoque" is the entire modus operandi of you guys. I'm pointing out
> >>>>> that you are not living up to the standards of ethical integrity which
> >>>>> you advocate. Nothing wrong with that.
> >>>> We're not the ones claiming to have the inside track
> >>>> on ethics. The never ending cycle of finger pointing
> >>>> was started by the vegan and it is the vegan who must
> >>>> end it.
> >>> Don't follow you. I didn't start any "finger pointing".
> >> It's implied in declaring oneself "vegan".  You're exalting yourself,
> >> claiming superior virtue, and point an accusing finger at meat eaters.
> >> That is inherent in the declaration.
>
> > When you declare yourself "libertarian" and claim that I am not,
>
> We're talking about your declaration that you're "vegan".  There is an
> implied accusation - finger-pointing - aimed at meat eaters in that
> declaration.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We can talk about whatever we want to. When I declare myself "vegan",
there is no implied accusation and finger-pointing. When you declare
yourself "libertarian" and claim that I am not, there is.
From: Derek on 6 Aug 2008 15:20
On Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:09:51 -0700, Rudy Canoza <pipes(a)thedismalscience.not> wrote:
[..]
>Gary Francione is a truly despicable person.

He was long gone before I arrived here, and the vast majority
of his posts disappeared with him shortly after, or so it seems.
Still, undaunted and keen to learn how he presented his position
on Usenet I gleaned what I could from reading the replies to his
posts. That was a long time ago, but the one thing that stands
out most in my mind is an easily-memorable quote he once made
regarding his supposed "despicable" unfairness;

"Most of the people who say that I am unfair tried to screw me
and I just screwed them better."

>Do you remember Martin Martens, who was a regular here about
>8-9 years ago?

Oh yes. We didn't get along.

>He was in graduate
>school at University of British Columbia in Vancouver back then.
>Francione tangled in Usenet, and based purely on ideological
>disagreement with Martens, and Martens' willingness to tell Francione he
>was wrong and didn't have a case, Francione contacted the UBC
>administration and faculty and tried to have Martens kicked out. Also,
>not that I want to side with Sue Bishop, but Francione also went after
>her outside of Usenet in a personal way. The guy should be in jail.

I don't know anything about that, and I've never made any
effort to find out. Seems to me he screwed them better than
they tried to screw him.
From: Rupert on 6 Aug 2008 21:56
On Aug 4, 11:27 pm, Rudy Canoza <pi...(a)thedismalscience.noot> wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
> > On Aug 3, 2:15 pm, Dutch <n...(a)email.com> wrote:
> >> Rupert wrote:
> >>> [...]
> >> As soon as you departed from the subject of diet you
> >> introduced a completely different and undefined set of
> >> parameters.
>
> > See my earlier post. It was Rudy who brought up the topic of our
> > complicity in the acts of whatever government happens to be ruling the
> > country we work in.
>
> Nope.  That's something else.  You *chose* to go to China and engage in
> work that directly supports the regime.
>

You choose to remain in the United States. What's the distinction?

My work doesn't support the Chinese Communist Party, by the way.
From: Derek on 7 Aug 2008 15:02
On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 10:56:06 -0700, Rudy Canoza <pipes(a)thedismalscience.not> wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008 19:13:40 -0700 (PDT), Rupert <rupertmccallum(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Aug 6, 3:32 pm, Derek <usenet.em...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
[..]
>>>> You know what, I'm actually feeling a little bit sorry
>>>> for him, in the sense that I pity him.
>>>
>>> Why would that be, Derek?
>>
>> Because, believe it or not, I'm naturally sympathetic to
>> the suffering of others and pity them while I watch that
>> suffering.
>>
>>> I'm not doing all that badly.
>>
>> You're doing terribly, and it's all your own fault, but
>> that doesn't stop me from feeling sorry for you.
>
>Agreed. Watching someone harm himself, even if it's only the trivial
>harm to reputation that occurs from Usenet stupidity, still elicits
>compassion and sorrow from decent folks.
>
>You've no doubt seen where I've called rupie arrogant before. I really
>do find him arrogant. I was in graduate school until I was close to the
>age rupie is now, and I'm quite familiar with the sense that smart
>graduate students think they're Masters of the Universe. I have two
>friends who finished their Ph.D.s, and while they've mellowed some, they
>still have a bit of an air about them that they're the Smartest Guys in
>the World; in particular, they think they're exempt from the normal
>rules that apply to everyone else. They seem to think they're above or
>beyond that kind of thing; that it's only relevant for the grubby
>masses.

While on the other hand, some people with a lifetime of academia
behind them say nothing at all about their achievements. My uncle
John (Davis), for example, is a professor in computer science and
was head of the computer science faculty at Hatfield University for
many years right up until he retired, and never once did he ever
discuss his achievements or his position there. You can see an old
picture of him in the link I've provided (top left).
http://tinyurl.com/6mnomv

I don't know why but I've always seen people who indulge in that
kind of boasting as conceited and comparative, and I'm often left
wondering why they fail to see that making comparisons between
themselves and those they boast to leaves them looking so foolish.

>It's very Nietzschean.
>
>rupie just REEKS of that attitude. It makes it just a wee bit harder to
>feel compassion for him.

His obvious candidature for being a target for 'tall poppy syndrome'
aside, I still feel something similar to pity while watching him fall.
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