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From: tension_on_the_wire on 24 Jul 2008 15:43
On Jul 24, 10:02 am, "Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman)" <lao...(a)spam.cox.net>
wrote:
> terryc wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:10:10 -0700, tension_on_the_wire wrote:
>
> >> There is, however, a significant difference in the technique of
> >> playing a didgeridoo that has a lot to do with pharyngeal muscle
> >> manipulation.  I can't describe it, unfortunately.  It's even
> >> different from opera singing which is the second most demanding skill
> >> on the use of pharyngeal muscles, but there is something further back
> >> in the throat required for didgeridoo which is unique,
>
> > Not unique uniqe. Once some europeans learnt how to play a didgeridoo,
> > they suddnely worked out how to "play" some other ancient musical
> > instruments. Forget the deails.
>
> Commonly called circular breathing the technique is used by many
> instrumentalists for long passages and actually mostly involves the
> mouth, the throat work being quite simple.  The technique is to use the
> mouth as a reservoir of air while snatching a breath through the nose.
> If you can do that the trick is just budgeting the air because you can
> get plenty of air that way and you don't want to get too much or too
> little.  On some instruments, like the flute, this can be very tricky to
> do without losing the embouchure, the exactly correct position of the
> lips and tongue.  I know one concert flute player who claims to be able
> to do it, but I can't do it on that instrument.
>
> You are right that it is difficult to explain in detail in a useful way.
>
> The only thing unique about the didj is that one uses the mouth in
> various ways to somewhat change the pitch and to change the timber of
> the sound as well as to speak, sing, and so on while keeping the sound
> up.  That part is really just like the jews harp which is also know in
> many parts of the world.  The mouth bow is also similar.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm not referring to circular breathing. That technique is used
almost universally in wind instruments, although very difficult with
flute, indeed, and the oboe as well. The problem there is that the
embouchure for both require an extremely small and tight chamber of
the mouth leaving very little mouth air to work with when trying to
get the nasal air, and the flute generally requires a fair amount of
air flow to pass sound except at the highest pitches.

But yes, what I am referring to is the mouth technique but which also
involves the entire pharyngeal chamber in a way to not only modulate
pitch, but to resonate the sound at the back of the throat with a
certain rhythmicity so that it comes out sounding like it has been
reverberating in a cavern. Makes your sternum vibrate when you hear
it live.

--tension
From: Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman) on 24 Jul 2008 16:40
tension_on_the_wire wrote:
> On Jul 24, 10:02 am, "Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman)" <lao...(a)spam.cox.net>
> wrote:
>> terryc wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:10:10 -0700, tension_on_the_wire wrote:
>>>> There is, however, a significant difference in the technique of
>>>> playing a didgeridoo that has a lot to do with pharyngeal muscle
>>>> manipulation. I can't describe it, unfortunately. It's even
>>>> different from opera singing which is the second most demanding skill
>>>> on the use of pharyngeal muscles, but there is something further back
>>>> in the throat required for didgeridoo which is unique,
>>> Not unique uniqe. Once some europeans learnt how to play a didgeridoo,
>>> they suddnely worked out how to "play" some other ancient musical
>>> instruments. Forget the deails.
>> Commonly called circular breathing the technique is used by many
>> instrumentalists for long passages and actually mostly involves the
>> mouth, the throat work being quite simple. The technique is to use the
>> mouth as a reservoir of air while snatching a breath through the nose.
>> If you can do that the trick is just budgeting the air because you can
>> get plenty of air that way and you don't want to get too much or too
>> little. On some instruments, like the flute, this can be very tricky to
>> do without losing the embouchure, the exactly correct position of the
>> lips and tongue. I know one concert flute player who claims to be able
>> to do it, but I can't do it on that instrument.
>>
>> You are right that it is difficult to explain in detail in a useful way.
>>
>> The only thing unique about the didj is that one uses the mouth in
>> various ways to somewhat change the pitch and to change the timber of
>> the sound as well as to speak, sing, and so on while keeping the sound
>> up. That part is really just like the jews harp which is also know in
>> many parts of the world. The mouth bow is also similar.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I'm not referring to circular breathing. That technique is used
> almost universally in wind instruments, although very difficult with
> flute, indeed, and the oboe as well. The problem there is that the
> embouchure for both require an extremely small and tight chamber of
> the mouth leaving very little mouth air to work with when trying to
> get the nasal air, and the flute generally requires a fair amount of
> air flow to pass sound except at the highest pitches.
>
> But yes, what I am referring to is the mouth technique but which also
> involves the entire pharyngeal chamber in a way to not only modulate
> pitch, but to resonate the sound at the back of the throat with a
> certain rhythmicity so that it comes out sounding like it has been
> reverberating in a cavern. Makes your sternum vibrate when you hear
> it live.
>
> --tension
I see, you mean all that part of the job. Makes your head and sternum
vibrate when you do it. I met a fellow in Melbourne once who claimed
that the dij was responsible for getting him off of drugs and saving his
life. Such are enthusiasts.

I can't do circular breathing on the flute at all because I can't keep
the lips in the right place, but the oboe is fairly easy.

I don't see how any of this could benefit sleep apnea. It hasn't done
me any good, although the dij will certainly give you a nice vibration
in the chest which might loosen flegm or something. I don't mean to say
that it is impossible, just that I can't see it.
From: terryc on 25 Jul 2008 00:13
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:02:04 -0700, Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman) wrote:

> The only thing unique about the didj is that one uses the mouth in
> various ways to somewhat change the pitch and to change the timber of
> the sound as well as to speak, sing, and so on while keeping the sound
> up. That part is really just like the jews harp which is also know in
> many parts of the world. The mouth bow is also similar.

This is actually what I was referring to, but not these modern toys,
apparently some ancient battle horns also use the same technique, which if
I remember correctly is about vibrating your own vocal cords, rather than
comig from the lips in other instruments,

From: terryc on 25 Jul 2008 00:23
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:40:49 -0700, Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman) wrote:


> I don't see how any of this could benefit sleep apnea. It hasn't done
> me any good, although the dij will certainly give you a nice vibration
> in the chest which might loosen flegm or something. I don't mean to say
> that it is impossible, just that I can't see it.

I tend to agree with you and put it in the same class as all those other
miracle cures for any disease.

From: Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman) on 25 Jul 2008 02:09
terryc wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:02:04 -0700, Pope Pie (Sy Lehrman) wrote:
>
>> The only thing unique about the didj is that one uses the mouth in
>> various ways to somewhat change the pitch and to change the timber of
>> the sound as well as to speak, sing, and so on while keeping the sound
>> up. That part is really just like the jews harp which is also know in
>> many parts of the world. The mouth bow is also similar.
>
> This is actually what I was referring to, but not these modern toys,
> apparently some ancient battle horns also use the same technique, which if
> I remember correctly is about vibrating your own vocal cords, rather than
> comig from the lips in other instruments,
>

The sound of the dij comes from the flapping of the lips just like a
trumpet. While this goes on more or less at the same tone you can use
the voice to some extent. If you sing something near the note you are
playing you can get the two frequencies to beat against each other
making some different sounds or sing a melody, but that just modifies
the principal sound which always comes from the lips and it is the lips
that drive the air column.
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