From: David Wright on
In article <a49419ef-adc7-460a-bec2-5491cf714c80(a)s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Kevysmom <bluebunny8(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Have you rat bags ever seen a child that was vaccine injured? Why not
>visit the
>childrens hospital where they keep the cronically ill children (Acute
>Pediatrics)

Get a grip, Donna. The question is not "do vaccines ever cause harm?"
Clearly, there are cases where they do.

But diseases also cause harm. Lots of it. More of it than the
vaccines ever did.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous
people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke
From: David Wright on
In article <5fdc$474c8c97$d8fea68d$18456(a)PRIMUS.CA>,
Yuri Kuchinsky <yuku(a)trends.ca> wrote:
>
>"David Wright" <wright(a)l1000.prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:p8M2j.20755$4V6.6238(a)newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>> In article <4c3f0$474a4cb4$d8fea180$6137(a)PRIMUS.CA>,
>> Yuri Kuchinsky <yuku(a)trends.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>"Vaccine-man" <ziggittes(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:a7b92016-a172-457f-9608-22bf6b95dcaa(a)t47g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Nov 25, 7:40 pm, yu0...(a)gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 23, 8:13 pm, wri...(a)l1000.prodigy.net (David Wright) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > In the fraudulent "quotation."
>>>>>
>>>>> The quotation is not fraudulent.
>>>>
>>>> Yuri, can you provide the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech so that we
>>>> can all evaluate its context? I have searched Google and cannot locate
>>>> it. In fact, the only places that I do see this quotation are on
>>>> antivaccine web sites. Surely, in the interest of *honest discussion*
>>>> you can provide us the evidence we need to independently evaluate your
>>>> assertions.
>>>
>>>I don't have the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech.
>>>
>>>Nevertheless, I'm not aware of a single case when a reputable alt site
>>>posted a fake quote. Therefore, I give it a very high probability
>>>that this particular quote from Dr. Sabin is valid.
>>
>> How amusing. I guess you've never heard the old saying that a lie can
>> circle the earth while the truth is still putting its boots on.
>>
>> Given that Sabin spent his whole career on vaccines and was much in
>> favor of them, it's highly unlikely the quotation is accurate.
>
>There's no evidence that this quote from Sabin is incorrect. Just because it
>doesn't fit into your world view, it doesn't mean it's not valid.
>
>According to my source, Sabin said this on December 7th, 1985 at a lecture
>to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy. Should be pretty easy to verify.
>Where are your research skills?
>
>>>How about this one from Dr Morris?
>>>
>>>Yuri.
>>>
>>>Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku
>>>
>>>"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children
>>>does more harm than good." -- Dr J Anthony Morris, former Chief Vaccine
>>>Control Officer, FDA.
>>
>> Unless you can provide a source for this (like when did he say it and
>> where), I see no reason to believe it's accurate either.
>> Interestingly, if you stick that "quotation" into google, you also
>> find it attributed to Dr Klenner, the 'vitamin C cures all' guy that
>> whale.to likes to venerate.
>
>The same applies to this Morris quote. These quotes have been on the web for
>years, and only now you're waking up to them???

No, there's always some anti-vax loon like you willing to quote them.
It's all been done before, and no more convincingly.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"Saddam Hussein was a bad man, connected with some incredibly dangerous
people: Cheney, Rumsfeld, George Galloway." -- Marcus Brigstocke


From: Rudy Canoza on
yu00ku(a)gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2:58 pm, Jeff <kidsdoc2...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
>>> "Vaccine-man" <ziggit...(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:53321117-4f36-4eac-b278-b3c360c9d96c(a)g30g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Nov 27, 2:11 pm, "Yuri Kuchinsky" <y...(a)trends.ca> wrote:
>>>>> There's no evidence that this quote from Sabin is incorrect. I'm sorry it
>>>>> doesn't fit into your world view, but it's not my fault...
>>>>> Yuri.
>>>> There is plenty of evidence that he didn't say it
>>> Where is the evidence that he didn't say it?
>> How do you prove a negative?
>>
>> Do you think that on his dying day, he wrote out everything he didn't say?
>>
>> You made a claim that he said something. Please provide real evidence
>> that he did, not the laughing stock web page (whale.to).
>>
>>>> (or if he did, it is
>>>> taken out of context. This is a person who *until his dying day*
>>>> promoted vaccination against vaccine-preventable diseases. How could
>>>> he have possible made the comment you have asserted?
>>>> Once again, can you provide the full text of this supposed
>>>> presentation that Dr. Sabin gave? Otherwise, you should admit that you
>>>> don't have any first hand evidence that this statement was ever made.
>>> So far, we only get your _opinion_ that he didn't say it. That's not good
>>> enough.
>> It is inconsistent with the rest of the work he did. And you have
>> offered no verifiable evidence that he said it.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> This game is really getting old...
>
> This Sabin quote was first used on Usenet on Feb 7 1998 by Natural
> Mom.

PROVE it.

Anyway, doesn't that seem to suggest something wrong?
The quote is supposedly much earlier than that, and
usenet has been around for quite a long time. How is
it some other irrational believer in pseudo-science
didn't use it in the 13 intervening years?


> David Wright reply on Oct 18 1999
> "*Where and when* did he say this? It would be he either said no such
> thing, or he's being quoted out of context."

The best explanations.
From: Rudy Canoza on
Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
> "David Wright" <wright(a)l1000.prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:p8M2j.20755$4V6.6238(a)newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>> In article <4c3f0$474a4cb4$d8fea180$6137(a)PRIMUS.CA>,
>> Yuri Kuchinsky <yuku(a)trends.ca> wrote:
>>> "Vaccine-man" <ziggittes(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:a7b92016-a172-457f-9608-22bf6b95dcaa(a)t47g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Nov 25, 7:40 pm, yu0...(a)gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 23, 8:13 pm, wri...(a)l1000.prodigy.net (David Wright) wrote:
>>>>>> In the fraudulent "quotation."
>>>>> The quotation is not fraudulent.
>>>> Yuri, can you provide the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech so that we
>>>> can all evaluate its context? I have searched Google and cannot locate
>>>> it. In fact, the only places that I do see this quotation are on
>>>> antivaccine web sites. Surely, in the interest of *honest discussion*
>>>> you can provide us the evidence we need to independently evaluate your
>>>> assertions.
>>> I don't have the entire text of Dr. Sabin's speech.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, I'm not aware of a single case when a reputable alt site
>>> posted a fake quote. Therefore, I give it a very high probability
>>> that this particular quote from Dr. Sabin is valid.
>> How amusing. I guess you've never heard the old saying that a lie can
>> circle the earth while the truth is still putting its boots on.
>>
>> Given that Sabin spent his whole career on vaccines and was much in
>> favor of them, it's highly unlikely the quotation is accurate.
>
> There's no evidence that this quote from Sabin is incorrect.

There is no evidence that it is correct, and in the
absence of evidence *for* something, the rational
person doesn't believe it.


> Just because it
> doesn't fit into your world view, it doesn't mean it's not valid.

It is entirely inconsistent with everything known about
Sabin.


> According to my source,

Your source is a bullshit web site run by other
irrational hysterics like yourself.


> Sabin said this on December 7th, 1985 at a lecture
> to Italian doctors in Piacenza, Italy. Should be pretty easy to verify.

Then get to it. The burden of proof is on you.

Meanwhile, until you can authenticate it, sane people
will disbelieve it.
From: Richard Schultz on
[sci.med.immunology removed from Newsgroups]

In misc.health.alternative yu00ku(a)gmail.com wrote:

: This Sabin quote was first used on Usenet on Feb 7 1998 by Natural Mom.

Is this the amount of time that is *necessary* for a usenet post to
automatically turned into the truth, or simply a *sufficient* time? I that
it's the latter, because I'd really rather not have to wait until 2016.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr(a)mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."