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From: Radovan Berkovic on 20 Feb 2006 20:03
I can't sleep...if i had a job i would surely have a panic attack...i simple
cannot work with this daemon..with my phd diploma...
none of these facts can make me depressed rite now..

i hope u all r feeling okay this night


From: paul on 20 Feb 2006 23:28

Hi
At the moment I am working with my therapist to trigger my panic attacks, so
I can learn to deal with them more effectivelly
(I can trigger them but not to the same level.)

>>>>if i had a job i would surely have a panic attack...i simple >>>>


I have had several panic attacks at work, not a very plesent experience
but with therapy I have spotted the last 3 coming on and have been able to
deal with them before
they became full blown panic attacks, so there is hope for me, it is just
going to take a long time to recover
paul


"Radovan Berkovic" <funky.crookie@@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:43fa6719(a)usenet.zapto.org...
>I can't sleep...
> cannot work with this daemon..with my phd diploma...
> none of these facts can make me depressed rite now..
>
> i hope u all r feeling okay this night
>


From: riccip-uk on 22 Feb 2006 01:27
"paul" <stevonospamplease(a)northnet.com.au> wrote:

>At the moment I am working with my therapist to trigger my panic attacks, so
>I can learn to deal with them more effectivelly
>(I can trigger them but not to the same level.)

Hi Paul
Personally I think this is a very bad idea. It's a method called
"flooding" that can work well with simple phobias (fear of birds,
sharp objects, dirt, etc). The patient comes to understand that
the object they fear most will not harm them and hence that their
fears are irrational.

However SP is NOT a simple phobia. It is a deeply rooted
psychological condition which has become intricately woven into
your character and your essential being. With time it becomes
increasingly complex as we take on "psychological additions" and
the triggers are not easily definable. Hence SP won't respond to
quick cures - hypnotism, NLP, flooding, etc. If it did we'd all
be "cured" by now.

We already know our fear is irrational, we're perfectly aware of
that, so flooding has very little to prove. Deliberately
triggering a PA will only further reassure you that the fear is
very real. Desensitizing in the case of SP should be gradual and
gentle. Take it s-l-o-w-l-y and never push yourself beyond the
mildest of anxiety.

You don't need to punish yourself in this way and your therapist
really should know better. Always remember that ultimately YOU
are in charge of your therapy and recovery, not the docs. If you
don't like this line of treatment tell your therapist you want to
stop it, or find a better therapist.

>>>>>if i had a job i would surely have a panic attack...i simple >>>>
>
>
>I have had several panic attacks at work, not a very plesent experience
>but with therapy I have spotted the last 3 coming on and have been able to
>deal with them before
>they became full blown panic attacks, so there is hope for me, it is just
>going to take a long time to recover

PAs are not pleasant. They are amongst the worst experiences a
human being can face. Therein lies the problem. They are so
distressing we would do anything to avoid them. Hence it's easy
for a pattern of avoidance behaviour to set in.

As impossible as it might sound right now you can and will get a
handle on those PAs. A PA effectively feeds on your fear of PAs,
it's a vicious circle. But cyclic it is and you can always break
any cycle. You learn to lower the background anxiety and form a
new relationship with the fear then the PAs gradually diminish.

It's a mistake to count your PAs. For now accept them as the way
things are because like it or not they are a part of you. Don't
fight them, don't get angry and don't hate them. Think of PAs as
just another symptom of SP and try not to focus on them. With SP
you treat the underlying condition, not the individual symptoms.

When you feel completely neutral towards the PAs, when you no
longer care about them one way or another, they stop. There is
also a bonus. You will be left with the ability to keep your cool
and take appropriate action in extreme circumstances when
everyone else goes into panic mode. You will never again be truly
afraid of anything.

Riccip
From: RK on 1 Mar 2006 11:57
> Hi Paul
> Personally I think this is a very bad idea. It's a method called
> "flooding" that can work well with simple phobias (fear of birds,
> sharp objects, dirt, etc). The patient comes to understand that
> the object they fear most will not harm them and hence that their
> fears are irrational.
>
> However SP is NOT a simple phobia. It is a deeply rooted
> psychological condition which has become intricately woven into
> your character and your essential being. With time it becomes
> increasingly complex as we take on "psychological additions" and
> the triggers are not easily definable. Hence SP won't respond to
> quick cures - hypnotism, NLP, flooding, etc. If it did we'd all
> be "cured" by now.
>
> We already know our fear is irrational, we're perfectly aware of
> that, so flooding has very little to prove. Deliberately
> triggering a PA will only further reassure you that the fear is
> very real. Desensitizing in the case of SP should be gradual and
> gentle. Take it s-l-o-w-l-y and never push yourself beyond the
> mildest of anxiety.
>
> You don't need to punish yourself in this way and your therapist
> really should know better. Always remember that ultimately YOU
> are in charge of your therapy and recovery, not the docs. If you
> don't like this line of treatment tell your therapist you want to
> stop it, or find a better therapist.
>
>>>>>>if i had a job i would surely have a panic attack...i simple >>>>
>>
>>
>>I have had several panic attacks at work, not a very plesent experience
>>but with therapy I have spotted the last 3 coming on and have been able to
>>deal with them before
>>they became full blown panic attacks, so there is hope for me, it is just
>>going to take a long time to recover
>
> PAs are not pleasant. They are amongst the worst experiences a
> human being can face. Therein lies the problem. They are so
> distressing we would do anything to avoid them. Hence it's easy
> for a pattern of avoidance behaviour to set in.
>
> As impossible as it might sound right now you can and will get a
> handle on those PAs. A PA effectively feeds on your fear of PAs,
> it's a vicious circle. But cyclic it is and you can always break
> any cycle. You learn to lower the background anxiety and form a
> new relationship with the fear then the PAs gradually diminish.
>
> It's a mistake to count your PAs. For now accept them as the way
> things are because like it or not they are a part of you. Don't
> fight them, don't get angry and don't hate them. Think of PAs as
> just another symptom of SP and try not to focus on them. With SP
> you treat the underlying condition, not the individual symptoms.
>
> When you feel completely neutral towards the PAs, when you no
> longer care about them one way or another, they stop. There is
> also a bonus. You will be left with the ability to keep your cool
> and take appropriate action in extreme circumstances when
> everyone else goes into panic mode. You will never again be truly
> afraid of anything.
>
> Riccip


Bravo! This is some real clever post! I have tried almost everything, from
selfhelp books, nlp, hypnotism (I even thought once that if I only could
have Paul Mckenna hypnotize me:-) and this posting tells exactly what I have
discovered. There's for me only medication, and to realise that SP/PA is me,
I have to live with it and accept that this is how I am. There are just too
many charlatans around who's for cash are ready to claim they can cure
anything. Many teachers today force children to make presentations, luckily
for me this wasn't very common when I went to school, I wonder how much
fright and suffering this induce in an SP child. I know that many here
doesn't like medication but for me Lexapro has taken the top of the anxiety
and made me gradually, in my own pace, want to face my fears. I totally
agree with you Riccip !!




From: riccip-uk on 5 Mar 2006 03:58
"RK" <R@J> wrote:

>Bravo! This is some real clever post! I have tried almost everything, from
>selfhelp books, nlp, hypnotism (I even thought once that if I only could
>have Paul Mckenna hypnotize me:-) and this posting tells exactly what I have
>discovered. There's for me only medication, and to realise that SP/PA is me,
>I have to live with it and accept that this is how I am.

That's right. Like me you are, and always will be SP - but you
don't have to be a slave to it. Though acceptance, learning and
understanding SP kinda sinks into the background where it
belongs, allowing the real *you* to shine through. Without the
symptoms you can live a non-SP life. Sometimes you have to try
hard to remember the SP times, but they no longer matter.

>There are just too
>many charlatans around who's for cash are ready to claim they can cure
>anything. Many teachers today force children to make presentations, luckily
>for me this wasn't very common when I went to school, I wonder how much
>fright and suffering this induce in an SP child. I know that many here
>doesn't like medication but for me Lexapro has taken the top of the anxiety
>and made me gradually, in my own pace, want to face my fears. I totally
>agree with you Riccip !!

Personally I have nothing against meds but you have to ask
yourself what you are trying to achieve. Short term they will
mask the symptoms but they also mask other, more positive aspects
of your psyche. You have the rest of your life to live and long
term I'm not sure they are the answer. Statistically the highest
proportion of success wuth anxiety disorders comes from a
combination of medication and CBT. As desensitization progresses
the need for meds may not be so pronounced.

Riccip
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