From: Peter Bowditch on
"Freddy" <gogo(a)geds.org> wrote:

>
>The Boom King <Boom!@spamsux.com> wrote in message
>news:FOT8g.1104$uB5.789(a)fe03.lga...
>> pa_nk(a)hotmail.com wrote:
>> > A few months ago I had a back problem and visited my local
>> > chiropractor. After doing X-rays, taking a history, diagnosis etc. and
>> > then having him do 2-3 adjustments per week over a few months, my back
>> > pain improved significantly and then went away completely.
>> >
>> > Excellent I thought - I've never gone to a chiropractor before and he
>> > fixed me.
>> >
>> > Now I've been seeing him every 2 weeks for 'maintenance' adjustment.
>> > This costs about $30 a shot. He always wants to sign me up for payment
>> > plans. I'm getting the distinct impression I should be 'adjusted' every
>> > 2 weeks forever!
>> >
>> > Let's see - $30 per adjustment x 26 per year x every year for life x
>> > the number of patients in his practice = quite a hefty sum!
>> >
>> > Has anyone else noticed this? Do I need maintenance on a continuing
>> > basis forever?
>>
>> Chiropractic may or may not be used ethically, just as any other
>> profession. Given that, here are a few things to consider:
>>
>> The subject of whether or not chiropractic is effective in treating
>> uncomplicated back pain has long been settled... it is. However the
>> practice itself was not developed and is not limited to simply treat
>> back pain. Chiropractic adjustments improve the functioning of the
>> nervous system regardless of the presence of pain or other symptoms.
>> You can look at this type of treatment as preventative, or better yet
>> "wellness care". The detection and removal of spinal subluxations will
>> be a part of a lifestyle that is focused on achieving optimal health.
>> Physical, Spiritual and Mental well-being are necessary for optimal
>> health and can be pursued with exercise, good nutrition, adequate rest,
>> and stress reduction (either reducing stress-causing conditions or
>> developing practices that reduce the effects of stress). The important
>> thing to note in this model (which is certainly not unique to
>> chiropractic, but is in harmony with its central philosophy) is that the
>> focus is on increasing health, not on reducing symptoms. In contrast to
>> the medical model, a person with no symptoms is not necessarily as
>> healthy as the next person (I'm not as healthy as Lance Armstrong,
>> though we both may be symptom/disease free to an MD). Raising your
>> level of health to its optimum requires action on your part that can be
>> greatly facilitated by many holistic practitioners in many different
>> disciplines.
>>
>> If your only concern is the current presence or absence of pain, then
>> ongoing chiropractic evaluation is not for you. If you want to increase
>> your health towards its potential, become involved with your
>> chiropractor and find what is right for you. You may do just as well
>> getting checked once a month as twice a month. You can develop a
>> conscious relationship with the functioning of your body and mind and
>> easily determine for yourself if you need a chiropractic adjustment.
>> Yoga and meditation are particularly helpful in this pursuit. Some
>> people don't want to go that far and find, after trial and error, that
>> their life is better with regular chiropractic evaluations (they sleep
>> better, digest better, have more energy, etc.). BTW, the best chiro
>> evaluation is one in which you don't need an adjustment, just like a
>> check-up at the dentist. Would you wait until you have an abscessed
>> tooth to make your first visit to the dentist?
>>
>> People in this country spend a great deal of money on fitness clubs,
>> organic food, bottled water, Yoga classes, therapy, mattresses,
>> massages, etc. All in the pursuit of increasing their health and living
>> better, longer lives. Chiropractic has a valid place in this scheme,
>> that place is determined by you based on what you want out of life.
>>
>> A good chiropractor will encourage you to make positive changes in your
>> life, perhaps refer you to other professionals in the community who can
>> help with this, leading to such a dramatic increase in your wellness
>> that you almost never "need" to see him at all. Not a very good scam.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Boom!
>
>Can you provide any randomly-controlled double blind longitudinal studies
>which demonstrate the long term neurological effectiveness of "maintenance"
>joint popping?
>
>Yet, I can show *you* a study actually published by the National
>Chiropractic College in Chicago which shows the lifespan of the average
>Chiropractor in the United States is a mean 3.2 years less than the average
>MD.
>
>Tell you something?
>

I expect a tape from Joel Wallach any day now: "Dead Chiropractors
Don't Lie".
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
From: Max C. on
Mark Probert wrote:
> You should spend some time figuring out what you are doing wrong to
> cause repeated injury. I do a lot of lifting of my son to and from his
> wheelchair and, so far, have not had a significant problem. I learned
> how to lift a very time ago, and I think that is what does it. I plan
> every lift.

Oh, I know what I did wrong the first 2 times. I lifted without
thinking it through first. The 1st time was when I was a teen working
at Wal-Mart. I lifted a case of Chlorox and twisted my upper body as I
lifted. It had to be, without a doubt, the worst pain of my life. I
lived with that pain for over 2 years before I finally went to my first
chiropractic visit. They fixed in less than 2 months what I had lived
with for over 2 years. The second time was years later building a
house. Same stupid thing, though. I lifted something heavy and
twisted. Down I went.

The last 2 times it has happened (one just a couple of months ago) have
no explanation. I just wake up in severe pain. Nothing out of the
oridinary the day before. I'm starting to suspect my bed. It *is*
rather soft.

> > Sounds like you got a doc that's trying to build a client base without
> > enough clients.
>
> On occasion one of my insurance company clients questions the frequency
> of treatment a chiropractor is providing. We have set up a surveillance
> camera outside of the chiropractors office and do a patient count. One
> fellow was treating 30 patients an hour. He does not do workers
> compensation any longer. Without that, a chiropractor in NY is out of
> business.

30 an hour!?!? Just one doctor in the office? Yeah, there's something
wrong there.

Max.

From: The Boom King on
Freddy wrote:

> Can you provide any randomly-controlled double blind longitudinal studies
> which demonstrate the long term neurological effectiveness of "maintenance"
> joint popping?

Actually... no, I can't. Although, I do wonder what some docs like
Malik Slosberg or Christopher Kent might have to say on the subject.
And, I wouldn't have anything to say at all about joint popping, but I
can speak with authority on chiropractic adjustments. Personally, I
have two thoughts on a comment like this:

1. I don't think such a study is possible. We don't have the
technology to measure nebulous ideas like nerve function and health (and
please don't confuse nerve function with nerve conductivity... just
because your computer is getting power, doesn't mean its working well).
Not even in the short term. However, does this mean that the theory
isn't true? I hope not, because I'll have to chalk up 10 years of
clinical practice as self delusion and drop out of health care. I
wouldn't be able to find a system of health care that only relies on
treatments and philosophy that meet this criterion.

2. Does this "lack" of scientific evidence bother me? Not in the
least. I have a strong background in science that has made me very
skeptical of the various claims of chiropractors all through
chiropractic college and right up until this moment. And more often
than not these claims have proven true in my personal experience
(although some have proven truly wacky). That is way more authoritative
than any scientific study to me. You could show me the most dazzling
rcdbs absolutely proving chiropractic was a hoax, and I would shut off
the computer, sleep like a baby, and get up Monday morning to answer the
calls of the long-term patients asking for further help with their
problems and the new patients looking to improve their lives. Not even
give it a second thought. Though I might keep an eye out for the next
study that disproves the first. The philosophy is logically consistent,
and there is more than enough clinical evidence to support it. Really,
good enough for me.


--
Who's the Boom King?
From: Robert on
The truth about chiropractic

http://www.chirobase.org/

<pa_nk(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1147401041.959354.259450(a)j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> A few months ago I had a back problem and visited my local
> chiropractor. After doing X-rays, taking a history, diagnosis etc. and
> then having him do 2-3 adjustments per week over a few months, my back
> pain improved significantly and then went away completely.
>
> Excellent I thought - I've never gone to a chiropractor before and he
> fixed me.
>
> Now I've been seeing him every 2 weeks for 'maintenance' adjustment.
> This costs about $30 a shot. He always wants to sign me up for payment
> plans. I'm getting the distinct impression I should be 'adjusted' every
> 2 weeks forever!
>
> Let's see - $30 per adjustment x 26 per year x every year for life x
> the number of patients in his practice = quite a hefty sum!
>
> Has anyone else noticed this? Do I need maintenance on a continuing
> basis forever?
>


From: The Boom King on
Freddy wrote:


> Yet, I can show *you* a study actually published by the National
> Chiropractic College in Chicago which shows the lifespan of the average
> Chiropractor in the United States is a mean 3.2 years less than the average
> MD.
>
> Tell you something?


No, not really. And *I* did throw away the 10 minutes to read the whole
study. It's got its own critique at the end so I'll leave it for anyone
interested. I was kinda happy to see how long some of those old-timers
lasted, some of whom I've actually had the honor of meeting and even
receiving an adjustment from. Considering my job is many more times
physically stressful than any MD I know, I would be kind of encouraged
by this study if it accurately reflects reality. The fact that
chiropractors have such a hard time getting disability insurance may be
more telling than anything.

On a personal note (yes... anecdotal data), I've had an insurance agent
inform me that chiropractors are among the highest brackets of
disability insurance because the job was as physically demanding as most
manual laborers and an injury can often be career ending. Livin to 73
sounds pretty good actually.


--
Who's the Boom King?