From: Mark Thorson on
The Boom King wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > One may as well ask the magician what's that
> > lump up his sleeve.
>
> Yes, quite right. Good analogy. To someone who doesn't know what
> they're talking about and is ignorant of the anatomy and physiology,
> chiropractic looks like magic. But, if you ask the magician to show you
> how its done and explain it, you're usually surprised at how simple and
> logical it is. I have occasionally heard the word "miracle" come out
> of my patients mouths and been quick to assure them that their own body
> is doing the real work, not me.

If "subluxations" really exist (as a phenomenon
external to the mind of the chiropractor), how
come different chiropractors will find those
subluxations in different places in the same
patient? The lack of constancy of diagnosis
among chiropractors shows that it is an imagined,
delusional phenomenon.

Quoting from:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chiroinv.html

During the 1970s, I supervised a study in which
a young woman took her healthy four-year-old
daughter to five chiropractors for a "check-up."
The woman, who was a practical nurse, had contacted
me because she was afraid that her younger sister,
who had started working for a chiropractor, was
being "brainwashed" into having unnecessary
"spinal adjustments" every week. When I expressed
interest in seeing how chiropractors deal with
healthy people, she eagerly volunteered to do
some research.

At that time, about 25% of chiropractors in our
community had engaged in advertising that was
flamboyant and misleading. We decided to choose
from among these first. The first said the
child's shoulder blades were "out of place"
and found "pinched nerves to her stomach and
gallbladder." The second chiropractor showed
a movie which stated that "chiropractic can
also be effective in combating most childhood
diseases." He said that the child's pelvis was
"twisted" and advised that she have "adjustments,
vitamins, and a check every four months." The
third said one hip was "elevated" and that
spinal misalignments could cause "headaches,
nervousness, equilibrium or digestive problems"
in the future. The fourth predicted "bad periods
and rough childbirth" if her "shorter left leg"
was not treated. He said he adjusted his own
family once a week and recommended weekly
checkups and adjustments for everyone else.
The fifth not only found hip and neck problems,
but also "adjusted" them without bothering to
ask permission. Unfortunately, the adjustments
were so painful that I decided to postpone
further investigation until adult volunteers
could be found.

The next volunteer, a healthy 29-year-old
psychologist, visited four more chiropractors
for check-ups. The chiropractors were selected
from the telephone directory without regard
to their advertising practices. The first
diagnosed an "atlas subluxation" and predicted
"paralysis in fifteen years" if this problem
was not treated. The second found many vertebrae
"out of alignment" and one hip "higher" than the
other. The third said the woman's neck was
"tight." The fourth said that misaligned
vertebrae indicated the presence of "stomach
problems." All four recommended spinal
adjustments on a regular basis, beginning with
a frequency of twice a week. Three gave
adjustments without warning -- one of which
was so forceful that it produced dizziness and
a headache that lasted for several hours.

Another volunteer, a 36-year-old housewife,
visited seven more chiropractors selected
without regard for their advertising practices.
The first found "minor structural problems"
in the neck, mid-back and lower spine regions
and recommended four to six treatments. The
second found nothing wrong. The third said
the woman's left hip was lower than her right
hip, adjusted a few areas of her spine
(painfully) and suggested she return if she
felt "sluggish." The fourth said her right
hip and several vertebrae were "twisted."
After pressing on the offending body parts,
he suggested a return appointment in a week
to see if the adjustments held. The fifth
chiropractor thought there might be a serious
problem with a "pinched nerve" in the neck
that could cause "sinus trouble" -- but he
could not be sure without an x-ray. The sixth,
who called himself a "herbologist," used
muscle-testing to diagnose a "vitamin C
deficiency" and indicated he could do
extensive nutritional testing if requested.
The seventh thought there was a hip problem,
adjusted it, and recommended an x-ray for
further diagnosis.
From: Happy Dog on
"The Boom King" <Boom!@spamsux.com> wrote in message

> Yes, quite right. Good analogy. To someone who doesn't know what they're
> talking about and is ignorant of the anatomy and physiology, chiropractic
> looks like magic. But, if you ask the magician to show you how its done
> and explain it, you're usually surprised at how simple and logical it is.
> I have occasionally heard the word "miracle" come out of my patients
> mouths and been quick to assure them that their own body is doing the real
> work, not me.

Whatever. When did chiropractors start being able to explain the mechanism
by which spinal manipulation resolves non-musculo-skeletal pathology? Why
can't a group of chiropractors reliably come up with the same diagnosis of
subluxation?

moo


From: Robert on

"The Boom King" <Boom!@spamsux.com> wrote in message
news:ml8ag.20$336.1(a)fe05.lga...
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > Peter Bowditch wrote:
> >
> >>Ah, the old "you know Barrett so I won't talk to you" form of
> >>argument. I have links to chiropractors and Curezone as well.
> >
> >
> > That doesn't matter. He's looking for a reason
> > to invalidate everything you say and wiggle out
> > of responding to direct, logical questions.
>
> See posted response... um, responding.
>
> > One may as well ask the magician what's that
> > lump up his sleeve.
>
> Yes, quite right. Good analogy. To someone who doesn't know what
> they're talking about and is ignorant of the anatomy and physiology,
> chiropractic looks like magic. But, if you ask the magician to show you
> how its done and explain it, you're usually surprised at how simple and
> logical it is. I have occasionally heard the word "miracle" come out
> of my patients mouths and been quick to assure them that their own body
> is doing the real work, not me.
>
>
It's called placebo


From: Hyderman DC on

Robert <sabu77(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-audnVF76fm7w_TZnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d(a)comcast.com...
>
> "The Boom King" <Boom!@spamsux.com> wrote in message
> news:ml8ag.20$336.1(a)fe05.lga...
> > Mark Thorson wrote:
> >
> > > Peter Bowditch wrote:
> > >
> > >>Ah, the old "you know Barrett so I won't talk to you" form of
> > >>argument. I have links to chiropractors and Curezone as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > That doesn't matter. He's looking for a reason
> > > to invalidate everything you say and wiggle out
> > > of responding to direct, logical questions.
> >
> > See posted response... um, responding.
> >
> > > One may as well ask the magician what's that
> > > lump up his sleeve.
> >
> > Yes, quite right. Good analogy. To someone who doesn't know what
> > they're talking about and is ignorant of the anatomy and physiology,
> > chiropractic looks like magic. But, if you ask the magician to show you
> > how its done and explain it, you're usually surprised at how simple and
> > logical it is. I have occasionally heard the word "miracle" come out
> > of my patients mouths and been quick to assure them that their own body
> > is doing the real work, not me.
> >
> >
> It's called placebo

Occasionally, *any* treatment has a placebo element to it.



>
>


From: vernon on

"Hyderman DC" <drsbh(a)REMOVEtelus.net> wrote in message
news:0Jkag.15598$cl1.14263(a)edtnps90...
>
> Robert <sabu77(a)comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:-audnVF76fm7w_TZnZ2dnUVZ_tSdnZ2d(a)comcast.com...
>>
>> "The Boom King" <Boom!@spamsux.com> wrote in message
>> news:ml8ag.20$336.1(a)fe05.lga...
>> > Mark Thorson wrote:
>> >
>> > > Peter Bowditch wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>Ah, the old "you know Barrett so I won't talk to you" form of
>> > >>argument. I have links to chiropractors and Curezone as well.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > That doesn't matter. He's looking for a reason
>> > > to invalidate everything you say and wiggle out
>> > > of responding to direct, logical questions.
>> >
>> > See posted response... um, responding.
>> >
>> > > One may as well ask the magician what's that
>> > > lump up his sleeve.
>> >
>> > Yes, quite right. Good analogy. To someone who doesn't know what
>> > they're talking about and is ignorant of the anatomy and physiology,
>> > chiropractic looks like magic. But, if you ask the magician to show
>> > you
>> > how its done and explain it, you're usually surprised at how simple and
>> > logical it is. I have occasionally heard the word "miracle" come out
>> > of my patients mouths and been quick to assure them that their own body
>> > is doing the real work, not me.
>> >
>> >
>> It's called placebo
>
> Occasionally, *any* treatment has a placebo element to it.

ABSOLUTELY, every treatment for a conscious individual has an element of
placebo.