forgiveness
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From: Ken McM. on 18 Jan 2008 15:57 Lisa Mc wrote: > On Jan 17, 12:51 am, "Lynn - Josh's Mom" <lynn.za...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Jan 15, 9:38 am, donna <donnac...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>>> One feels the way one feels. Acting on those feelings is another >>>> thing. I have honestly tried to dial down my resentments of others who >>>> have hurt me. Many of them don't even realize that they did. >>> dear genie, >>> wise words. we can't control what we feel but we can choose what >>> actions, if any, we take. there have been some people who are now >>> excluded from my life; their behavior at savannah's death have removed >>> them from ever being close to me again. on the other hand, there are >>> people who will have my loyalty forever. i believe tragedy brings out >>> both the worst and best in people ... but what a cost. >>> best, >>> donna >> Donna: >> >> You are so right! You find out who is your true friends when you lose >> a child. It was amazing to me, the friends that I believed would be >> there for me - and weren't. Not a problem though, I am no longer the >> same person I was, part of my soul and heart died with my son. I have >> become very picky about the kind of person I am around now. They must >> have a true heart. Wishing you the best! >> >> Lynn - Josh's Mom > > I can't post a link or anything but a few months ago I was listening > to AM radio a a person was talking about forgiveness. They did a > study on families who had loved ones that were murdered. 10 years > after the loss, those that had forgiven the murderers were physically > and mentally healthier and were at peace with their loved one's > passing. Those who still harbored anger and resentment had higher > rates of various sicknesses and diseases and lower mental health. > I've not had anything done to me so horrible that I've had to deal > with forgiveness issues, so it's unfair for me to comment either way. > Just throwing out some food for thought. While not the AM radio program which you cited, I did find an NPR program (Talk of the Nation) on forgiveness and health. The show starts with an article that Melissa Healy of the LA Times wrote. She also wrote the articles that I quoted on forgiveness earlier in the month. The show is 30 minutes long and I have listened to most of it so far. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17785209 Studies Suggest Forgiveness Has Health Benefits Listen Now [29 min 56 sec] add to playlist Talk of the Nation, January 2, 2008 � Religious leaders have long hailed forgiveness as an act of virtue. Now, some researchers are claiming that, in addition to improving your spiritual health, forgiveness may have benefits for your physical health, too. Guest: Melissa Healy, author of the article "You're not sorry? That's OK" published Monday in the Los Angeles Times Frederic Luskin, director of Stanford University's Forgiveness Projects Jeanne Safer, psychotherapist
From: pcatalani on 20 Jan 2008 20:54 On Jan 18, 3:57 pm, "Ken McM." <kmcmonig-removes...(a)bcpl.net> wrote: > Lisa Mc wrote: > > On Jan 17, 12:51 am, "Lynn - Josh's Mom" <lynn.za...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Jan 15, 9:38 am, donna <donnac...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> One feels the way one feels. Acting on those feelings is another > >>>> thing. I have honestly tried to dial down my resentments of others who > >>>> have hurt me. Many of them don't even realize that they did. > >>> dear genie, > >>> wise words. we can't control what we feel but we can choose what > >>> actions, if any, we take. there have been some people who are now > >>> excluded from my life; their behavior at savannah's death have removed > >>> them from ever being close to me again. on the other hand, there are > >>> people who will have my loyalty forever. i believe tragedy brings out > >>> both the worst and best in people ... but what a cost. > >>> best, > >>> donna > >> Donna: > > >> You are so right! You find out who is your true friends when you lose > >> a child. It was amazing to me, the friends that I believed would be > >> there for me - and weren't. Not a problem though, I am no longer the > >> same person I was, part of my soul and heart died with my son. I have > >> become very picky about the kind of person I am around now. They must > >> have a true heart. Wishing you the best! > > >> Lynn - Josh's Mom > > > I can't post a link or anything but a few months ago I was listening > > to AM radio a a person was talking about forgiveness. They did a > > study on families who had loved ones that were murdered. 10 years > > after the loss, those that had forgiven the murderers were physically > > and mentally healthier and were at peace with their loved one's > > passing. Those who still harbored anger and resentment had higher > > rates of various sicknesses and diseases and lower mental health. > > I've not had anything done to me so horrible that I've had to deal > > with forgiveness issues, so it's unfair for me to comment either way. > > Just throwing out some food for thought. > > While not the AM radio program which you cited, I did find an NPR > program (Talk of the Nation) on forgiveness and health. > The show starts with an article that Melissa Healy of the LA Times > wrote. She also wrote the articles that I quoted on forgiveness earlier > in the month. > The show is 30 minutes long and I have listened to most of it so far.http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17785209 > > Studies Suggest Forgiveness Has Health Benefits > > Listen Now [29 min 56 sec] add to playlist > > Talk of the Nation, January 2, 2008 · Religious leaders have long hailed > forgiveness as an act of virtue. Now, some researchers are claiming > that, in addition to improving your spiritual health, forgiveness may > have benefits for your physical health, too. > > Guest: > > Melissa Healy, author of the article "You're not sorry? That's OK" > published Monday in the Los Angeles Times > > Frederic Luskin, director of Stanford University's Forgiveness Projects > > Jeanne Safer, psychotherapist- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I understand what everyone means about forgiviness being healthier for all involved & helps lead you to a peaceful life, but I don't understand how you can force the feeling of forgivness if you just don't feel that way. I don't understand or know how to even begin the process, I feel the way I feel & can't change that no matter how much better it would be for me., I guess I just don't get it. Confused as usual, so many feelings I just don't understand, I wish I could be at peace with what happened to my daughter but I don't know if I ever will be. How do we forgive without it being phony? I envy people who know how to honestly, in their hearts, forgive those who have hurt them, maybe it takes a special type of person & I'm not that type. I wish I could be. Any answers anyone? Anyone know what I am trying to say? I guess I need some help sorting things out. Thanks for listening, I can't be here as much as I would like to be, but it helps me to know I can come & talk to all of you without being judged. My sorrows to all the newcomers, sorry you need to be here, & my best wishes to all my old friends. Pat
From: Crystal's mom on 21 Jan 2008 06:32 On Jan 20, 7:54 pm, pcatal...(a)comcast.net wrote: > On Jan 18, 3:57 pm, "Ken McM." <kmcmonig-removes...(a)bcpl.net> wrote: > > > > > > > Lisa Mc wrote: > > > On Jan 17, 12:51 am, "Lynn - Josh's Mom" <lynn.za...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > >> On Jan 15, 9:38 am, donna <donnac...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >>>> One feels the way one feels. Acting on those feelings is another > > >>>> thing. I have honestly tried to dial down my resentments of others who > > >>>> have hurt me. Many of them don't even realize that they did. > > >>> dear genie, > > >>> wise words. we can't control what we feel but we can choose what > > >>> actions, if any, we take. there have been some people who are now > > >>> excluded from my life; their behavior at savannah's death have removed > > >>> them from ever being close to me again. on the other hand, there are > > >>> people who will have my loyalty forever. i believe tragedy brings out > > >>> both the worst and best in people ... but what a cost. > > >>> best, > > >>> donna > > >> Donna: > > > >> You are so right! You find out who is your true friends when you lose > > >> a child. It was amazing to me, the friends that I believed would be > > >> there for me - and weren't. Not a problem though, I am no longer the > > >> same person I was, part of my soul and heart died with my son. I have > > >> become very picky about the kind of person I am around now. They must > > >> have a true heart. Wishing you the best! > > > >> Lynn - Josh's Mom > > > > I can't post a link or anything but a few months ago I was listening > > > to AM radio a a person was talking about forgiveness. They did a > > > study on families who had loved ones that were murdered. 10 years > > > after the loss, those that had forgiven the murderers were physically > > > and mentally healthier and were at peace with their loved one's > > > passing. Those who still harbored anger and resentment had higher > > > rates of various sicknesses and diseases and lower mental health. > > > I've not had anything done to me so horrible that I've had to deal > > > with forgiveness issues, so it's unfair for me to comment either way. > > > Just throwing out some food for thought. > > > While not the AM radio program which you cited, I did find an NPR > > program (Talk of the Nation) on forgiveness and health. > > The show starts with an article that Melissa Healy of the LA Times > > wrote. She also wrote the articles that I quoted on forgiveness earlier > > in the month. > > The show is 30 minutes long and I have listened to most of it so far.http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17785209 > > > Studies Suggest Forgiveness Has Health Benefits > > > Listen Now [29 min 56 sec] add to playlist > > > Talk of the Nation, January 2, 2008 · Religious leaders have long hailed > > forgiveness as an act of virtue. Now, some researchers are claiming > > that, in addition to improving your spiritual health, forgiveness may > > have benefits for your physical health, too. > > > Guest: > > > Melissa Healy, author of the article "You're not sorry? That's OK" > > published Monday in the Los Angeles Times > > > Frederic Luskin, director of Stanford University's Forgiveness Projects > > > Jeanne Safer, psychotherapist- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > I understand what everyone means about forgiviness being healthier for > all involved & helps lead you to a peaceful life, but I don't > understand how you can force the feeling of forgivness if you just > don't feel that way. I don't understand or know how to even begin the > process, I feel the way I feel & can't change that no matter how much > better it would be for me., I guess I just don't get it. Confused as > usual, so many feelings I just don't understand, I wish I could be at > peace with what happened to my daughter but I don't know if I ever > will be. How do we forgive without it being phony? I envy people who > know how to honestly, in their hearts, forgive those who have hurt > them, maybe it takes a special type of person & I'm not that type. I > wish I could be. Any answers anyone? Anyone know what I am trying to > say? I guess I need some help sorting things out. Thanks for > listening, I can't be here as much as I would like to be, but it helps > me to know I can come & talk to all of you without being judged. My > sorrows to all the newcomers, sorry you need to be here, & my best > wishes to all my old friends. Pat- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Pat, Thank goodness for your post. I understand your meaning all too well....I was feeling as though I was some kind of unusual species with my "lack" of forgiveness. I don't feel "it" and it would be nice if people wouldn't try to make me be like them...I'm not! They don't "get it", that my whole being has underwent a change that- God forbid - they never will know unless they experience it. I'm NOT whole anymore! I've learned to go thru the motions of life, but I'm an empty shell except for the ache of missing my daughter. Forgiving her murderer won't bring her back...his maker is who he needs to get forgiveness from. From my experience, the judges go easier on them if they say "I'm sorry", so each time some mother says they forgive ....it makes it more difficult to get the appropriate sentence handed down....drug dealers get longer sentences. Our judge asked me..."why she should ruin this young man's life?" And one can't always just quit associating with people who hurt you....some are a daily have to. Amanda...Crystal's mom
From: pcatalani on 22 Jan 2008 08:00 On Jan 21, 6:32 am, "Crystal's mom" <faman...(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > On Jan 20, 7:54 pm, pcatal...(a)comcast.net wrote: > > > > > > > On Jan 18, 3:57 pm, "Ken McM." <kmcmonig-removes...(a)bcpl.net> wrote: > > > > Lisa Mc wrote: > > > > On Jan 17, 12:51 am, "Lynn - Josh's Mom" <lynn.za...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jan 15, 9:38 am, donna <donnac...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > >>>> One feels the way one feels. Acting on those feelings is another > > > >>>> thing. I have honestly tried to dial down my resentments of others who > > > >>>> have hurt me. Many of them don't even realize that they did. > > > >>> dear genie, > > > >>> wise words. we can't control what we feel but we can choose what > > > >>> actions, if any, we take. there have been some people who are now > > > >>> excluded from my life; their behavior at savannah's death have removed > > > >>> them from ever being close to me again. on the other hand, there are > > > >>> people who will have my loyalty forever. i believe tragedy brings out > > > >>> both the worst and best in people ... but what a cost. > > > >>> best, > > > >>> donna > > > >> Donna: > > > > >> You are so right! You find out who is your true friends when you lose > > > >> a child. It was amazing to me, the friends that I believed would be > > > >> there for me - and weren't. Not a problem though, I am no longer the > > > >> same person I was, part of my soul and heart died with my son. I have > > > >> become very picky about the kind of person I am around now. They must > > > >> have a true heart. Wishing you the best! > > > > >> Lynn - Josh's Mom > > > > > I can't post a link or anything but a few months ago I was listening > > > > to AM radio a a person was talking about forgiveness. They did a > > > > study on families who had loved ones that were murdered. 10 years > > > > after the loss, those that had forgiven the murderers were physically > > > > and mentally healthier and were at peace with their loved one's > > > > passing. Those who still harbored anger and resentment had higher > > > > rates of various sicknesses and diseases and lower mental health. > > > > I've not had anything done to me so horrible that I've had to deal > > > > with forgiveness issues, so it's unfair for me to comment either way.. > > > > Just throwing out some food for thought. > > > > While not the AM radio program which you cited, I did find an NPR > > > program (Talk of the Nation) on forgiveness and health. > > > The show starts with an article that Melissa Healy of the LA Times > > > wrote. She also wrote the articles that I quoted on forgiveness earlier > > > in the month. > > > The show is 30 minutes long and I have listened to most of it so far.http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17785209 > > > > Studies Suggest Forgiveness Has Health Benefits > > > > Listen Now [29 min 56 sec] add to playlist > > > > Talk of the Nation, January 2, 2008 · Religious leaders have long hailed > > > forgiveness as an act of virtue. Now, some researchers are claiming > > > that, in addition to improving your spiritual health, forgiveness may > > > have benefits for your physical health, too. > > > > Guest: > > > > Melissa Healy, author of the article "You're not sorry? That's OK" > > > published Monday in the Los Angeles Times > > > > Frederic Luskin, director of Stanford University's Forgiveness Projects > > > > Jeanne Safer, psychotherapist- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > I understand what everyone means about forgiviness being healthier for > > all involved & helps lead you to a peaceful life, but I don't > > understand how you can force the feeling of forgivness if you just > > don't feel that way. I don't understand or know how to even begin the > > process, I feel the way I feel & can't change that no matter how much > > better it would be for me., I guess I just don't get it. Confused as > > usual, so many feelings I just don't understand, I wish I could be at > > peace with what happened to my daughter but I don't know if I ever > > will be. How do we forgive without it being phony? I envy people who > > know how to honestly, in their hearts, forgive those who have hurt > > them, maybe it takes a special type of person & I'm not that type. I > > wish I could be. Any answers anyone? Anyone know what I am trying to > > say? I guess I need some help sorting things out. Thanks for > > listening, I can't be here as much as I would like to be, but it helps > > me to know I can come & talk to all of you without being judged. My > > sorrows to all the newcomers, sorry you need to be here, & my best > > wishes to all my old friends. Pat- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Pat, Thank goodness for your post. I understand your meaning all too > well....I was feeling as though I was some kind of unusual species > with my "lack" of forgiveness. I don't feel "it" and it would be nice > if people wouldn't try to make me be like them...I'm not! They don't > "get it", that my whole being has underwent a change that- God forbid - > they never will know unless they experience it. I'm NOT whole > anymore! I've learned to go thru the motions of life, but I'm an > empty shell except for the ache of missing my daughter. Forgiving her > murderer won't bring her back...his maker is who he needs to get > forgiveness from. From my experience, the judges go easier on them > if they say "I'm sorry", so each time some mother says they > forgive ....it makes it more difficult to get the appropriate sentence > handed down....drug dealers get longer sentences. Our judge asked > me..."why she should ruin this young man's life?" > And one can't always just quit associating with people who hurt > you....some are a daily have to. > Amanda...Crystal's mom- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Good to know I'm not alone. I was beginning to feel like some sort of terriable person, who is just being spiteful, and that is not the case. He took something so precious from me & my family. We have to live with this forever, the emptyness we now have inside. He only got 3 yrs. & then will be free to start his life over, our loss is forever. Thank you for responding, I feel better knowing I am not the only one to feeel this way. Maybe someday it will change but I don't see that any time soon.I go thru my day to day life as I have to, but inside is a different story. I keep thinking if only he had stopped to help her instead of running away, maybe I would look at it differently, but its too late now, so the bitterness remains. Thank you again, having others understand is helpful to me. My thoughts with you all, Pat
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