flushless niacin
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From: Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr. on 18 Apr 2006 03:25 Has anyone else found flushless niacin useful in treating a schizo disorder? I'm taking about 500mg a day. It really helps. Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr. Lubbock, Texas rkinserlow at cox dot net homepage: www.members.cox.net/rkinserlow
From: m_kelbell on 18 Apr 2006 06:06 "Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr." <me(a)nospam.com> wrote in message news:2v49421h3noofte9b7gua8fk73q5bp9nm2(a)4ax.com... > Has anyone else found flushless niacin useful in treating a schizo > disorder? I'm taking about 500mg a day. It really helps. > > > Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr. > Lubbock, Texas > rkinserlow at cox dot net > homepage: www.members.cox.net/rkinserlow Do you mean niacinamide? (That form causes much less flushing.)** I'm BP rather that schizo, but Niacinamide (along with other vitamins) does help me sleep much better, and increases mental alertness during the day. 100-250mg per day is adequate for me. The research I read (sorry don't have link) quoted a much higher amount for schizophrenia -( however those patients were not taking any other meds). The doses were between 1000mg-10000mg per day. Now my experience- start low (100mg to 250mg) and work your way up gradually on the dose (over a few weeks) to 1000mg and see if that helps. You'll need to take other B-vitamins also (50-100mg complex per day) - but take the niacinamide (B-3) by itself for the best results. If you take any B vitamin (including B-3) to great excess, you may produce other B vitamin deficiencies - that's why you'll need the extra B-complex also. -- maryjane **(By the way flushless niacin or niacinamide can still cause flushing in some people - its just that you can take a much higher dose before this happens. Drink 16 oz glass of water when you take it, that will help prevent the flushing. The flushing is a harmless side effect - but it is very uncomfortable!!! (It makes me itch too.) If you start flushing despite the water, drink MORE water - flushing should go away within 30 min.)
From: Larry Hoover on 18 Apr 2006 14:29 <m_kelbell(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:7T21g.61157$F_3.27476(a)newssvr29.news.prodigy.net... > > "Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr." <me(a)nospam.com> wrote in message > news:2v49421h3noofte9b7gua8fk73q5bp9nm2(a)4ax.com... >> Has anyone else found flushless niacin useful in treating a schizo >> disorder? I'm taking about 500mg a day. It really helps. >> >> >> Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr. >> Lubbock, Texas >> rkinserlow at cox dot net >> homepage: www.members.cox.net/rkinserlow > > Do you mean niacinamide? (That form causes much less flushing.)** Flushless niacin, when labelled as such, is almost always inositol hexanicotinate, the ester of the sugar inositol and six niacin molecules. The ester bond is rather slowly broken in the gut, which results in something like a timed release of niacin. It is not at all the same as niacinamide, although the two structures do share some significant amounts of biochemistry arising from their supplementation. > I'm BP rather that schizo, but Niacinamide (along with other vitamins) does help > me sleep much better, and increases mental alertness during the day. 100-250mg per > day is adequate for me. I'm really glad to hear that. You might extend your responsiveness by also ensuring you get adequate magnesium and vitamin D. That would be 300-500 mg/day and 1,-4,000 IU/day, respectively. > The research I read (sorry don't have link) quoted a much higher amount for > schizophrenia -( however those patients were not taking any other meds). The doses > were between 1000mg-10000mg per day. Yes, schizophrenia has a niacin-responsive population. Ray's experience is quite in line with those earlier experiments, although he has found relief at a much lower dose. Ray, you could increase the dose without much risk. If you experience nausea, or severe headache that won't go away, then just stop taking it. Your body will recover from that, without much problem. You do gradually increase the risk of liver toxicity, but really, that is a result of an imbalance in B-vitamin and antioxidant intake, rather than a true toxic effect, per se. If you do increase the dose, get a standard liver panel done (requires a blood draw) fairly routinely. > Now my experience- start low (100mg to 250mg) and work your way up gradually on > the dose (over a few weeks) to 1000mg and see if that helps. You'll need to take > other B-vitamins also (50-100mg complex per day) - but take the niacinamide (B-3) > by itself for the best results. If you take any B vitamin (including B-3) to > great excess, you may produce other B vitamin deficiencies - that's why you'll > need the extra B-complex also. > > -- maryjane Sorry, maryjane, I was typing as I read, rather than reading your own precaution before I made my own. Yes, your advice is bang on, but also, increased vitamin C and alphalipoic acid turnover occurs with niacin therapy. > **(By the way flushless niacin or niacinamide can still cause flushing in some > people - its just that you can take a much higher dose before this happens. Drink > 16 oz glass of water when you take it, that will help prevent the flushing. The > flushing is a harmless side effect - but it is very uncomfortable!!! (It makes me > itch too.) If you start flushing despite the water, drink MORE water - flushing > should go away within 30 min.) For individuals who simply cannot tolerate niacin (what used to be called nicotinic acid), niacinamide (old name nicotinamide) is a safe alternative. The niacin flush is a release of histamine from mast cells, primarily found in the skin (including the lining of the lungs and stomach, by the way). Benadryl would probably take care of it, but I've never tried that. Niacinamide actually reduces the tendency for mast cells to degranulate (release histamine), so niacinamide can be an excellent augmentative strategy for anyone who has hay fever. Magnesium supplements (over 90% of Americans are magnesium deficient) also enhance the calming effect of niacinamide. Because magnesium can cause drowsiness, many people take it just before going to bed at night. And vitamin D, to enhance magnesium uptake, and reduce parathyroid stress. Most Americans are also deficient in vitamin D intake, recently shown to be safe at 4,000 IU/day. Lar
From: lym on 18 Apr 2006 16:32 Hey Lar, Hope you're well... I haven't been in here much lately because I have been busy starting a small business. I was interested to read what you had to say about the potential for Niacinamide reducing the degranulation of mast cells. Having been previously, and possibly falsely, diagnosed with Mastocytosis, I do "suffer" from flushing. I became for a while a bit of a self-styled expert on mast cell degranulation and had never heard that one! One thing that was recommended to me by the head of the Masto unit at the NIH was montelukast or Singulair?, but I have had only mixed results with that, even on 20mg (10mg is the supposed max). Anyway, worth trying for any other flushers out there. The only thing that actually has helped my flushing a bit is diazepam, which is of course a mixed blessing. For me, the degranulation appears to occur largely when I am anxious, so that was part of the thinking in trying that med. The flushing has ruined many a job interview for me, and as such is really quite a serious issue (or was moreso before I decided to stop interviewing and start my own business!). I feel as though I have read somewhere and kept in the back of what passes for my mind, that too much Niacin (or is it Niacinamide?!) is not good for you. That may be entirely false but somehow I have been brainwashed against taking either (and I don't honestly know the difference either) as a supplement. Can I prevail upon your kindness and expertise to speak to this issue (or myth, whichever) and to give us dumb folks a chance to understand the difference between Niacin and Niacinamide, its whences and wherefore art thous? Also what sort of dosages we might be looking at to try to effect a halt to this degranulation? Are there any risks/sides involved with taking the Magnesium also? Oh, one other thing... I am having a hard time remembering if there are mast cells everywhere in your body, but I do know that they are more than just in your skin. I had a duodenal biopsy to check their disposition in my gut, so at the very least I know there are some down there. Turns out that my GI symptoms which were also falsely dxed, stemmed from too much damn serotonin in the gut and cleared up once I got off of all anti-depressants, mainly SSRI's. Apparently, most of your body's serotonin is in your gut! Anyway, as always, thanks for your help!! :-) lym In article <8b29b$44452ff1$424fe5b1$9897(a)NEXICOM.NET>, Larry Hoover <larryhoover(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: > For individuals who simply cannot tolerate niacin (what used to be called > nicotinic > acid), niacinamide (old name nicotinamide) is a safe alternative. The niacin > flush > is a release of histamine from mast cells, primarily found in the skin > (including > the lining of the lungs and stomach, by the way). Benadryl would probably > take care > of it, but I've never tried that. Niacinamide actually reduces the tendency > for mast > cells to degranulate (release histamine), so niacinamide can be an excellent > augmentative strategy for anyone who has hay fever. Magnesium supplements > (over 90% > of Americans are magnesium deficient) also enhance the calming effect of > niacinamide. Because magnesium can cause drowsiness, many people take it just > before > going to bed at night. And vitamin D, to enhance magnesium uptake, and reduce > parathyroid stress. Most Americans are also deficient in vitamin D intake, > recently > shown to be safe at 4,000 IU/day.
From: Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr. on 19 Apr 2006 10:05
On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:06:59 GMT, <m_kelbell(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >"Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr." <me(a)nospam.com> wrote in message >news:2v49421h3noofte9b7gua8fk73q5bp9nm2(a)4ax.com... >> Has anyone else found flushless niacin useful in treating a schizo >> disorder? I'm taking about 500mg a day. It really helps. >> >> >> Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr. >> Lubbock, Texas >> rkinserlow at cox dot net >> homepage: www.members.cox.net/rkinserlow > >Do you mean niacinamide? (That form causes much less flushing.)** > >I'm BP rather that schizo, but Niacinamide (along with other vitamins) does >help me sleep much better, and increases mental alertness during the day. >100-250mg per day is adequate for me. > >The research I read (sorry don't have link) quoted a much higher amount for >schizophrenia -( however those patients were not taking any other meds). >The doses were between 1000mg-10000mg per day. > >Now my experience- start low (100mg to 250mg) and work your way up gradually >on the dose (over a few weeks) to 1000mg and see if that helps. You'll >need to take other B-vitamins also (50-100mg complex per day) - but take the >niacinamide (B-3) by itself for the best results. If you take any B vitamin >(including B-3) to great excess, you may produce other B vitamin >deficiencies - that's why you'll need the extra B-complex also. > >-- maryjane > >**(By the way flushless niacin or niacinamide can still cause flushing in >some people - its just that you can take a much higher dose before this >happens. Drink 16 oz glass of water when you take it, that will help >prevent the flushing. The flushing is a harmless side effect - but it is >very uncomfortable!!! (It makes me itch too.) If you start flushing despite >the water, drink MORE water - flushing should go away within 30 min.) > I have no flushing reaction to flushless niacin. I have always known niacin helped me somewhat, I just hadn't tried it in recent years. I am finding that the combination of 500mg flushless niacin, 6 mg Risperdal and 10 mg Abilify daily is a magic bullet for me. I have some concern over my liver since I am taking a statin. I intend to go the doctor and talk to him about either discontinuing the statin or having liver tests done more often. Ray Wesley Kinserlow Jr. Lubbock, Texas rkinserlow at cox dot net homepage: www.members.cox.net/rkinserlow |