"fearful aggression"
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From: Chip on 3 Dec 2008 14:57 I adopted a 6.5 year old female beagle recently and named her Layla. (think Eric Clapton :) Originally it was "Laila", but I changed it to something I could remember more easily. Three weeks ago she had surgery on her bladder to remove bladder stones. The vet said she had "100s of stones, some the size of bird eggs, some the size of peanuts, and many the size of grains of sand". Anyway, now that her physical problems are getting under better control, I'd like to start working on her behavioral problems. She's very friendly and affectionate towards humans (including strangers), but she goes into attack mode when she is approached by another dog..... who is usually just trying to be friendly. I looked up canine behavioral problems on the online Merck Veterinary Manual, and I think she has what is called "fearful aggression". That is, when she's afraid of another dog, she goes into attack mode and growls and shows her teeth. *At the same time she puts her tail between her legs* She's always on the leash during walks, and I have to pull on the leash to restrain her from attacking other dogs. And she's gone after some HUGE dogs too. I thought I'd bring up my dog's behavior cause the *fight or flight response* was brought up in another thread. It seems alot of us want to flee when we get anxious or panicky. But my dog appears to want to fight when she is afraid. Chip -- ========== Please DELETE this text block when replying! ========== Contact the moderators at: asapm-board(a)stump.algebra.com The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm ========= This notice is added to each approved article ==========
From: margrove2 on 3 Dec 2008 16:59 On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:57:34 -0600, "Chip" <chipmonk___36(a)hotmail.com_NOSPAM> wrote: > >I adopted a 6.5 year old female beagle recently and named her Layla. (think >Eric Clapton :) Originally it was "Laila", but I changed it to something I >could remember more easily. > >Three weeks ago she had surgery on her bladder to remove bladder stones. The >vet said she had "100s of stones, some the size of bird eggs, some the size >of peanuts, and many the size of grains of sand". Anyway, now that her >physical problems are getting under better control, I'd like to start >working on her behavioral problems. She's very friendly and affectionate >towards humans (including strangers), but she goes into attack mode when she >is approached by another dog..... who is usually just trying to be friendly. > >I looked up canine behavioral problems on the online Merck Veterinary >Manual, and I think she has what is called "fearful aggression". That is, >when she's afraid of another dog, she goes into attack mode and growls and >shows her teeth. *At the same time she puts her tail between her legs* She's >always on the leash during walks, and I have to pull on the leash to >restrain her from attacking other dogs. And she's gone after some HUGE dogs >too. > >I thought I'd bring up my dog's behavior cause the *fight or flight >response* was brought up in another thread. It seems alot of us want to flee >when we get anxious or panicky. But my dog appears to want to fight when she >is afraid. > >Chip doggies brains are wired a bit differently then ours-sadly for us maybe. Her response to other dogs is fear-she handles this fear with what equipment she has-teeth, and noise. Her tail goes down because she is protecting her hind quarters, her ears will most likley show changes as well but since hers dangle you can't see it. Her back hair may lift to make herself look bigger-her goal is to show the other dog that she is a threat, she is dominant, she is territorially protecting her ground and you and herself-her instinct tells her that other dogs are a threat-this may be because she was previously attacked, even as a pup while feeding on her mother she may have been pushed aside by her siblings-she has learned this is the only way to defend herself from a threat-canines equal a threat. She may be stuck with this behavior if it is too entrenched or she can be trained to respond better-the biggest trick here is she will reflect you! If you are calm and the dominant pack leader and do not react to other dogs she may follow suite. You can train her with the help of someone with another very calm dog. You will do this with a leash, chock collar, and using the same desensitizing techniques you would use on yourself. Your accomplice has his dog on a leash down the street-you walk her slowly and comfortably towards them-when she starts to act aggressive you quickly pull the leash in a sharp fast movement to engage the choke and say NO-stop and wait a minute then turn around-keep repeating until she listens and stops acting aggressive-go a little closer and repeat until maybe after three hours or so she can walk past the other dog and ignore him as you ignore him- and then keep practicing-if you are tense, anxious anr stressed she will sense it faster then you could believe and respond-someone has to be in charge-it is you. Try watching some cesar whatever his name is dog whisperer dvd's he uses some weird noises and finger pokes instead of the collar, but the behavioral technique is the same-the choke is a parent to puppy mode of teaching-the mother or father dog will grasp the neck of a baby and press firmly to show displeasure-you aren't supposed to suffocate the dog-if she keeps pulling on the choke you are doing it wrong-you could also try using a water gun and spritz her just when she starts getting aggresive-but her adrenaline may overcome the surprise of the water and she may not respond to it for too long-the choke works with almost all breeds of dogs including pit bulls. Get a nylon choke collar they will not burn or pinch her neck and only use it when training on leash or when you try and socilaize her-she is basically antisocial and combines both fear and aggression to survive-she needs to learn to give you the dominant role as pack leader to decide when it is time to be territorial-when she is good give her treats and praise-when she is bad be firm and displeased and don't bring more attention to her for a short time. 9 out of 10 times it is not the dog who needs the training-it is the dog owner-she was trained already but can learn new ways to deal with things-it just may take time and never be as controlled as you would want-but at least she can go for walks without going ballistic and pulling your shoulder out of joint -- ========== Please DELETE this text block when replying! ========== Contact the moderators at: asapm-board(a)stump.algebra.com The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm ========= This notice is added to each approved article ==========
From: Chip on 3 Dec 2008 21:48 <margrove2(a)optonline.net> wrote in message news:cgvdj4lekj1b8ci5edug4ddnkddsas7pgq(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:57:34 -0600, "Chip" > <chipmonk___36(a)hotmail.com_NOSPAM> wrote: > >> >>I adopted a 6.5 year old female beagle recently and named her Layla. >>(think >>Eric Clapton :) Originally it was "Laila", but I changed it to something I >>could remember more easily. >> >>Three weeks ago she had surgery on her bladder to remove bladder stones. >>The >>vet said she had "100s of stones, some the size of bird eggs, some the >>size >>of peanuts, and many the size of grains of sand". Anyway, now that her >>physical problems are getting under better control, I'd like to start >>working on her behavioral problems. She's very friendly and affectionate >>towards humans (including strangers), but she goes into attack mode when >>she >>is approached by another dog..... who is usually just trying to be >>friendly. >> >>I looked up canine behavioral problems on the online Merck Veterinary >>Manual, and I think she has what is called "fearful aggression". That is, >>when she's afraid of another dog, she goes into attack mode and growls and >>shows her teeth. *At the same time she puts her tail between her legs* >>She's >>always on the leash during walks, and I have to pull on the leash to >>restrain her from attacking other dogs. And she's gone after some HUGE >>dogs >>too. >> >>I thought I'd bring up my dog's behavior cause the *fight or flight >>response* was brought up in another thread. It seems alot of us want to >>flee >>when we get anxious or panicky. But my dog appears to want to fight when >>she >>is afraid. >> >>Chip > > > > doggies brains are wired a bit differently then ours-sadly for us > maybe. Her response to other dogs is fear-she handles this fear with > what equipment she has-teeth, and noise. Her tail goes down because > she is protecting her hind quarters, her ears will most likley show > changes as well but since hers dangle you can't see it. Her back hair > may lift to make herself look bigger-her goal is to show the other dog > that she is a threat, she is dominant, she is territorially protecting > her ground and you and herself-her instinct tells her that other dogs > are a threat-this may be because she was previously attacked, even as > a pup while feeding on her mother she may have been pushed aside by > her siblings-she has learned this is the only way to defend herself > from a threat-canines equal a threat. She may be stuck with this > behavior if it is too entrenched or she can be trained to respond > better-the biggest trick here is she will reflect you! If you are calm > and the dominant pack leader and do not react to other dogs she may > follow suite. You can train her with the help of someone with another > very calm dog. You will do this with a leash, chock collar, and using > the same desensitizing techniques you would use on yourself. Your > accomplice has his dog on a leash down the street-you walk her slowly > and comfortably towards them-when she starts to act aggressive you > quickly pull the leash in a sharp fast movement to engage the choke > and say NO-stop and wait a minute then turn around-keep repeating > until she listens and stops acting aggressive-go a little closer and > repeat until maybe after three hours or so she can walk past the other > dog and ignore him as you ignore him- and then keep practicing-if you > are tense, anxious anr stressed she will sense it faster then you > could believe and respond-someone has to be in charge-it is you. Try > watching some cesar whatever his name is dog whisperer dvd's he uses > some weird noises and finger pokes instead of the collar, but the > behavioral technique is the same-the choke is a parent to puppy mode > of teaching-the mother or father dog will grasp the neck of a baby and > press firmly to show displeasure-you aren't supposed to suffocate the > dog-if she keeps pulling on the choke you are doing it wrong-you could > also try using a water gun and spritz her just when she starts getting > aggresive-but her adrenaline may overcome the surprise of the water > and she may not respond to it for too long-the choke works with almost > all breeds of dogs including pit bulls. Get a nylon choke collar they > will not burn or pinch her neck and only use it when training on leash > or when you try and socilaize her-she is basically antisocial and > combines both fear and aggression to survive-she needs to learn to > give you the dominant role as pack leader to decide when it is time to > be territorial-when she is good give her treats and praise-when she is > bad be firm and displeased and don't bring more attention to her for a > short time. 9 out of 10 times it is not the dog who needs the > training-it is the dog owner-she was trained already but can learn new > ways to deal with things-it just may take time and never be as > controlled as you would want-but at least she can go for walks without > going ballistic and pulling your shoulder out of joint Margrove, thanks for the tips. There's a lady down the street who has two rescue chiwawas (chihuahuas) who exhibit antisocial behavior. IOW they bark and growl and yap and show their teeth and make a racket when another dog approaches. That lady suggested we could go for walks together so that our dogs become socialized to each other. I'm go to give her and her a dogs a shot, and see if I can desensitize my beagle and improve her socialization skills. She's almost 7 years old, so changing her behavior may not be possible. But still worth a try. Chip -- ========== Please DELETE this text block when replying! ========== Contact the moderators at: asapm-board(a)stump.algebra.com The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm ========= This notice is added to each approved article ==========
From: margrove2 on 3 Dec 2008 23:49 On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:48:42 -0600, "Chip" <chipmonk___36(a)hotmail.com_NOSPAM> wrote: > ><margrove2(a)optonline.net> wrote in message >news:cgvdj4lekj1b8ci5edug4ddnkddsas7pgq(a)4ax.com... >> On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:57:34 -0600, "Chip" >> <chipmonk___36(a)hotmail.com_NOSPAM> wrote: >> >>> >>>I adopted a 6.5 year old female beagle recently and named her Layla. >>>(think >>>Eric Clapton :) Originally it was "Laila", but I changed it to something I >>>could remember more easily. >>> >>>Three weeks ago she had surgery on her bladder to remove bladder stones. >>>The >>>vet said she had "100s of stones, some the size of bird eggs, some the >>>size >>>of peanuts, and many the size of grains of sand". Anyway, now that her >>>physical problems are getting under better control, I'd like to start >>>working on her behavioral problems. She's very friendly and affectionate >>>towards humans (including strangers), but she goes into attack mode when >>>she >>>is approached by another dog..... who is usually just trying to be >>>friendly. >>> >>>I looked up canine behavioral problems on the online Merck Veterinary >>>Manual, and I think she has what is called "fearful aggression". That is, >>>when she's afraid of another dog, she goes into attack mode and growls and >>>shows her teeth. *At the same time she puts her tail between her legs* >>>She's >>>always on the leash during walks, and I have to pull on the leash to >>>restrain her from attacking other dogs. And she's gone after some HUGE >>>dogs >>>too. >>> >>>I thought I'd bring up my dog's behavior cause the *fight or flight >>>response* was brought up in another thread. It seems alot of us want to >>>flee >>>when we get anxious or panicky. But my dog appears to want to fight when >>>she >>>is afraid. >>> >>>Chip >> >> >> >> doggies brains are wired a bit differently then ours-sadly for us >> > >Margrove, thanks for the tips. There's a lady down the street who has two >rescue chiwawas (chihuahuas) who exhibit antisocial behavior. most do-they are very high strung and have a very high fear threshold-they are usually aggressive IOW they bark >and growl and yap and show their teeth and make a racket when another dog >approaches. > >That lady suggested we could go for walks together so that our dogs become >socialized to each other. they won't it will continue to reinforce your beagle's fear and aggression-beagles are not usually aggressive but can be fearful so I still think she was in a threatened position sometime in her past. She needs to be subjected to calm dogs that do not return anything other then aloofness and basically ignore her-so she can see that dogs typically are not aggressive or a threat. So if somone has a lab or a golden retreiver who is very obedient and can just sit still while you approach and ultimately walk past them your dog has a shot and learning to be calm -it also dpends on your role-again, you are the dominant pack leader, the alpha male. It is imperative that you walk easily, calm and in control (something difficult to do with anxiety to begin with) -she takes most of her cuesabout her environment from you. If you respond with a high pitched excited voice, "who's that"? she will respond with great interest and increased fear-if you just give her the command, "heel", she will walk by your side and devote her attention to you, your pace, your direction and possibly just be interested in some smells, since beagels are "tracking" dogs by nature I'm go to give her and her a dogs a shot, and see >if I can desensitize my beagle and improve her socialization skills. She's >almost 7 years old, so changing her behavior may not be possible. it may not be possible in a six month old either-dogs can have neurotic behaviors that are indigenous to that dog-but dogs have a tremendous affinity to learn and they predominantly want to please the pack leader-they are motivated by praise, play, treats or prey-your dogs breed typically is interested in praise and treats-they may be great to reinforce her obedience-she needs to learn to sit, stay and lay "down" and down stay when needed. She needs to know the word NO and to maintain eye contact with you as well as walk in concert right by your side or "heel" when you walk her on leash-socializing can occur later on when she can behave calmly around other dogs-slowly she can come into contact with some neutered males or females who are already known to be playful and social-at 7 she may have some small degrees of arthritis and have less patience for playful pups so you need mature dogs that are easy going and calm for her to be around-those little mexicans or hyper terriers are not a good choice-look for well balanced mutts or retreiver type dogs or other beagles if you can-also remeber she has been in some pain for some time with her stones-so she has learned some very self protective behaviors that prevent other dogs from getting to frisky with her-it hurts when they do-so this may take repeated efforts-you may consider one of those free dog training clinics that some communities have in churches or firehouses and such-once she can socialize-It is at one of these places that with the help of an dog trainer (hopefully a good one) she can learn and you can learn-bond and develop some new friends-it would be great for both of you and best of all they are usually free or very inexpensive-private training is costly-you also need to work on her house breaking so you don't run into another doggie wasteland in your house again. This is a really nice opportunity for you to get involved with a creature who will love you regardless of anything in the world. She is unjudgemental and whole heartedly your best friend. It is a win win for both of you But still >worth a try. > >Chip -- ========== Please DELETE this text block when replying! ========== Contact the moderators at: asapm-board(a)stump.algebra.com The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm ========= This notice is added to each approved article ==========
From: margrove2 on 4 Dec 2008 00:00 On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 20:48:42 -0600, "Chip" <chipmonk___36(a)hotmail.com_NOSPAM> wrote: > ><margrove2(a)optonline.net> wrote in message >news:cgvdj4lekj1b8ci5edug4ddnkddsas7pgq(a)4ax.com... >> On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:57:34 -0600, "Chip" >> <chipmonk___36(a)hotmail.com_NOSPAM> wrote: >> >>> >>>I adopted a 6.5 year old female beagle recently and named her Layla. >>>(think >>>Eric Clapton :) Originally it was "Laila", but I changed it to something I >>>could remember more easily. >>> >>>Three weeks ago she had surgery on her bladder to remove bladder stones. >>>The >>>vet said she had "100s of stones, some the size of bird eggs, some the >>>size >>>of peanuts, and many the size of grains of sand". Anyway, now that her >>>physical problems are getting under better control, I'd like to start >>>working on her behavioral problems. She's very friendly and affectionate >>>towards humans (including strangers), but she goes into attack mode when >>>she >>>is approached by another dog..... who is usually just trying to be >>>friendly. >>> >>>I looked up canine behavioral problems on the online Merck Veterinary >>>Manual, and I think she has what is called "fearful aggression". That is, >>>when she's afraid of another dog, she goes into attack mode and growls and >>>shows her teeth. *At the same time she puts her tail between her legs* >>>She's >>>always on the leash during walks, and I have to pull on the leash to >>>restrain her from attacking other dogs. And she's gone after some HUGE >>>dogs >>>too. >>> >>>I thought I'd bring up my dog's behavior cause the *fight or flight >>>response* was brought up in another thread. It seems alot of us want to >>>flee >>>when we get anxious or panicky. But my dog appears to want to fight when >>>she >>>is afraid. >>> >>>Chip >> >> >> >> doggies brains are wired a bit differently then ours-sadly for us >> maybe. Her response to other dogs is fear-she handles this fear with >> what equipment she has-teeth, and noise. Her tail goes down because >> she is protecting her hind quarters, her ears will most likley show >> changes as well but since hers dangle you can't see it. Her back hair >> may lift to make herself look bigger-her goal is to show the other dog >> that she is a threat, she is dominant, she is territorially protecting >> her ground and you and herself-her instinct tells her that other dogs >> are a threat-this may be because she was previously attacked, even as >> a pup while feeding on her mother she may have been pushed aside by >> her siblings-she has learned this is the only way to defend herself >> from a threat-canines equal a threat. She may be stuck with this >> behavior if it is too entrenched or she can be trained to respond >> better-the biggest trick here is she will reflect you! If you are calm >> and the dominant pack leader and do not react to other dogs she may >> follow suite. You can train her with the help of someone with another >> very calm dog. You will do this with a leash, chock collar, and using >> the same desensitizing techniques you would use on yourself. Your >> accomplice has his dog on a leash down the street-you walk her slowly >> and comfortably towards them-when she starts to act aggressive you >> quickly pull the leash in a sharp fast movement to engage the choke >> and say NO-stop and wait a minute then turn around-keep repeating >> until she listens and stops acting aggressive-go a little closer and >> repeat until maybe after three hours or so she can walk past the other >> dog and ignore him as you ignore him- and then keep practicing-if you >> are tense, anxious anr stressed she will sense it faster then you >> could believe and respond-someone has to be in charge-it is you. Try >> watching some cesar whatever his name is dog whisperer dvd's he uses >> some weird noises and finger pokes instead of the collar, but the >> behavioral technique is the same-the choke is a parent to puppy mode >> of teaching-the mother or father dog will grasp the neck of a baby and >> press firmly to show displeasure-you aren't supposed to suffocate the >> dog-if she keeps pulling on the choke you are doing it wrong-you could >> also try using a water gun and spritz her just when she starts getting >> aggresive-but her adrenaline may overcome the surprise of the water >> and she may not respond to it for too long-the choke works with almost >> all breeds of dogs including pit bulls. Get a nylon choke collar they >> will not burn or pinch her neck and only use it when training on leash >> or when you try and socilaize her-she is basically antisocial and >> combines both fear and aggression to survive-she needs to learn to >> give you the dominant role as pack leader to decide when it is time to >> be territorial-when she is good give her treats and praise-when she is >> bad be firm and displeased and don't bring more attention to her for a >> short time. 9 out of 10 times it is not the dog who needs the >> training-it is the dog owner-she was trained already but can learn new >> ways to deal with things-it just may take time and never be as >> controlled as you would want-but at least she can go for walks without >> going ballistic and pulling your shoulder out of joint > >Margrove, thanks for the tips. There's a lady down the street who has two >rescue chiwawas (chihuahuas) who exhibit antisocial behavior. IOW they bark >and growl and yap and show their teeth and make a racket when another dog >approaches. > >That lady suggested we could go for walks together so that our dogs become >socialized to each other. I'm go to give her and her a dogs a shot, and see >if I can desensitize my beagle and improve her socialization skills. She's >almost 7 years old, so changing her behavior may not be possible. But still >worth a try. > >Chip forgot the commands stay and up -to stay no matter how the dog is positioned and to get up from laying or sitting on command-heel also works here as well -- ========== Please DELETE this text block when replying! ========== Contact the moderators at: asapm-board(a)stump.algebra.com The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm ========= This notice is added to each approved article ==========
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