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From: Uncle Sally on 14 Jul 2008 06:02
< note : I would personally love to see a serious discussion here about
exercise during and after your experience with cancer. what worked, what
didn't work, what you gave up, what you did not give up. >

J. wrote :

"While you're mediatating on that, a thought came to me.
Why would a person who, you think is at risk for cancer want new
vasculization?
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/understandingcancer/angiogenesis/Slide3"

Hi J,

Assuming the above comment is more than just a jest you wrote off the top of
your head :

There's no comparison between angiogenesis in tumors and vascularization of
muscles due to aerobic training effect. Two different realities.

Now it would be fascinating, indeed, if there were a link between high
levels of aerobic fitness and some forms of cancer, or if there were some
known correlation between muscles that are highly vascularized (like the
legs of a marathon runner ?) and tumors whose sites were more prevalent in
such highly vascularized regions.

Or if it were shown that aerobic exercise done when you have a tumor or
wide-spread cancer promotes vasularization for the tumors or cancer, thus
increasing their toxicity or growth : well, your oncologist would be
telling you quickly to stop working out ... I hope.

But focusing on vascularization may be putting the cart before the dog vis a
vis aerobic fitness and immune system strengthining or benefits.

It is my impression that one of the chief benefits of aerobic exercise and
fitness is preventive, not just for cardio-vascular health problems, and a
wide range of other illnesses which are stress and socially mediated
(so-called psycho-somatic maladies included), but also benefit to general
immune system strength.

No, I am not implying that aerobic fitness is preventive for cancer,
although I wouldn't be surprised if some long-term study found people in
their older years who had a long history of aerobic fitness had fewer of
certain types of cancer simply because of possible correlations with
life-style and habits (like not smoking, not boozing a lot).

I would read some recent research in these areas, since my own detailed
knowledge in this area (going way back to the original work of Kenneth
Cooper) is so dated.

The big payoff for aerobic exercise for me is personal happiness, increased
abilities to concentrate (valuable in my technical work), and what appears
to be the increase in "living in the moment" ! Be reductionistic and call
it the effects of "endorphins," or analyze it away into "temporary increase
in self-esteem due to conscious effort," it works :)

best, Uncle Sally


From: J on 14 Jul 2008 23:33
Uncle Sally wrote:

> J. wrote :
>
> "While you're mediatating on that, a thought came to me.
> Why would a person who, you think is at risk for cancer want new
> vasculization?
> http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/understandingcancer/angiogenesis/Slide3"
>
> Hi J,
>
> Assuming the above comment is more than just a jest you wrote off the top of
> your head :
>
> There's no comparison between angiogenesis in tumors and vascularization of
> muscles due to aerobic training effect. Two different realities.
>
> Now it would be fascinating, indeed, if there were a link between high
> levels of aerobic fitness and some forms of cancer, or if there were some
> known correlation between muscles that are highly vascularized (like the
> legs of a marathon runner ?) and tumors whose sites were more prevalent in
> such highly vascularized regions.
>
> Or if it were shown that aerobic exercise done when you have a tumor or
> wide-spread cancer promotes vasularization for the tumors or cancer, thus
> increasing their toxicity or growth : well, your oncologist would be
> telling you quickly to stop working out ... I hope.
>
> But focusing on vascularization may be putting the cart before the dog vis a
> vis aerobic fitness and immune system strengthining or benefits.

We were talking about your friend, a heavy smoker
and iirc "working out".
I see that different from body-building.
I suppose I also assumed he'd be smoking less while "working out".
J

From: J on 14 Jul 2008 23:40
Uncle Sally wrote:

> No, I am not implying that aerobic fitness is preventive for cancer,
> although I wouldn't be surprised if some long-term study found people in
> their older years who had a long history of aerobic fitness had fewer of
> certain types of cancer simply because of possible correlations with
> life-style and habits (like not smoking, not boozing a lot).

Did not help my uncle one bit and he wasn't a smoker nor drinker. Very fit 80.
(or so we all thought)
Started with shaking hands which snowballed into a fracture, a mild stroke, then
liver and kidney failure - gone in ~3 months...

So hard to predict the future.

I'll leave you to pursue the exercise and immune system with others here.
Take care and best wishes, US. :)
J

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