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From: Rod on 9 Aug 2008 03:41
amit.karandikar.2008(a)gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 8, 10:01 pm, "Elizabeth" <esniv...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Amit,
>>
>> If you are new to this group, you will soon find out that tradional
>> endocrinologists sometimes are too conservative.
>
> Yes I am in the US. In Manhattan to be precise. This tiredness is a
> strange thing -- doesn't let me sleep (I can feel my heart beat) and
> doesn't let me be energetic during the day either.
>
>
> -Amit
>
> Are you in the US? It seems
>> to be a big problem here as well as other places. Many thyroid sufferers are
>> walking around inadequately medicated and suffering. According to many in
>> this group, TSH is not the best indicator of thyroid health. Do you have
>> your fT3 and fT4 levels? Feel free to post your results.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> <amit.karandikar.2...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:35e2a656-05c5-48e1-8641-5ddf34360950(a)f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Aug 8, 8:58 pm, "Elizabeth" <esniv...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi Amit,
>>>> This sounds very much to me like you are underdosed. You didn't say why
>>>> your
>>>> dose was reduced, but by all means, I would insist to be raised back to
>>>> 200
>>>> mcg, where you evidently were doing a lot better!
>>> The doc adjusted the dose based on the TSH level.
>>> -Amit
>>>> I personally would not consider antidepressants unless you really feel
>>>> your
>>>> problem cannot be solved with thyroid adjustments. I had been on Zoloft
>>>> before my thyroid problem was diagnosed, and it really messed me up (some
>>>> antidepressants may exacerbate a thyroid problem). I was able to get off
>>>> that with much difficulty (there are significant side effects and
>>>> withdrawal
>>>> problems), start addressing my thyroid problem, and now I am starting to
>>>> feel better.
>>>> Supplements may help your overall health, and I too am looking into
>>>> various
>>>> ones, but in my opinion, they alone won't be able to fully correct your
>>>> imbalances if they are thyroid related.
>>>> Best of luck,
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>> <amit.karandikar.2...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:c8c178e7-3676-4429-97bf-2971f4dba202(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> I am a 28 year old male, weighing approx 200lbs, with a total
>>>>> thyroidectomy (2002), on 175 mcg of synthroid. For many years I have
>>>>> been on 200mcg of synthroid. It was changed to 175mcg maybe 4-5 months
>>>>> ago. Over the last two-three months, I have noticed a considerable
>>>>> lack of energy and weight gain and I haven't been pigging out either.
>>>>> On some days, I am perfect, I get up in the morning well rested, and
>>>>> things are perfect and I have tremendous energy. On these days, I tend
>>>>> to overwork and to the end of the day, I am energetic and happy. On
>>>>> other days, especially on days after the days of tremendous energy, I
>>>>> am down, my body sort of cramped up, my joints ache, I have no energy
>>>>> and I feel bloated. On these days I get no work done, and this is very
>>>>> frustrating. I seem to have become very sensitive to the amount of
>>>>> sleep I get, I cannot seem to pull-through on 6 hours sleep. I seem to
>>>>> need 9 hours.
>>>>> My doctor seems to think that 175 mcg of synthroid is perfect for me.
>>>>> Are these symptoms of underdosing? Perhaps it's just the fact that I
>>>>> am 50lbs overweight. Is there anything else I should try? Vitamin
>>>>> supplements maybe?. Would anti-depressants help?
>>>>> Confused..
>>>>> -Amit
>
I agree with Elizabeth. Under-dosed and keep off the anti-depressants.

Just guessing, but it could be that some days you need/use slightly more
thyroid hormone than others. On a 'good' day, the 175 is just enough, on
a 'bad' day, you need more.

This need could be real - but it could be to do with how well you are
absorbing the thyroxine. Do you take it first thing in the morning on an
empty stomach? And then not have breakfast for quite a while? Or could
foods (especially calcium-containing ones like milk) or supplements
(especially magnesium or aluminium based antacids or iron) be affecting
that? And there are various foods such as soya which can affect things.

You might consider supplementing with potassium (e.g. potassium
gluconate 100mg - five a day) and magnesium (e.g. 150mg magnesium
citrate). Also, it is *very* common for hypoTs to not have sufficient
vitamin B12 (suggest 1000mcg a day) - but that seems to need some B6 and
C to work properly. But your wellness on some days tends to suggest that
you are not too bad at all in these areas.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
From: amit.karandikar.2008 on 9 Aug 2008 09:01
On Aug 9, 3:41 am, Rod <polygo...(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
> amit.karandikar.2...(a)gmail.com wrote:
> > On Aug 8, 10:01 pm, "Elizabeth" <esniv...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Amit,
>
> >> If you are new to this group, you will soon find out that tradional
> >> endocrinologists sometimes are too conservative.
>
> > Yes I am in the US. In Manhattan to be precise. This tiredness is a
> > strange thing -- doesn't let me sleep (I can feel my heart beat) and
> > doesn't let me be energetic during the day either.
>
> > -Amit
>
> > Are you in the US? It seems
> >> to be a big problem here as well as other places. Many thyroid sufferers are
> >> walking around inadequately medicated and suffering. According to many in
> >> this group, TSH is not the best indicator of thyroid health. Do you have
> >> your fT3 and fT4 levels? Feel free to post your results.
>
> >> Elizabeth
>
> >> <amit.karandikar.2...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:35e2a656-05c5-48e1-8641-5ddf34360950(a)f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> On Aug 8, 8:58 pm, "Elizabeth" <esniv...(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>>> Hi Amit,
> >>>> This sounds very much to me like you are underdosed. You didn't say why
> >>>> your
> >>>> dose was reduced, but by all means, I would insist to be raised back to
> >>>> 200
> >>>> mcg, where you evidently were doing a lot better!
> >>> The doc adjusted the dose based on the TSH level.
> >>> -Amit
> >>>> I personally would not consider antidepressants unless you really feel
> >>>> your
> >>>> problem cannot be solved with thyroid adjustments. I had been on Zoloft
> >>>> before my thyroid problem was diagnosed, and it really messed me up (some
> >>>> antidepressants may exacerbate a thyroid problem). I was able to get off
> >>>> that with much difficulty (there are significant side effects and
> >>>> withdrawal
> >>>> problems), start addressing my thyroid problem, and now I am starting to
> >>>> feel better.
> >>>> Supplements may help your overall health, and I too am looking into
> >>>> various
> >>>> ones, but in my opinion, they alone won't be able to fully correct your
> >>>> imbalances if they are thyroid related.
> >>>> Best of luck,
> >>>> Elizabeth
> >>>> <amit.karandikar.2...(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:c8c178e7-3676-4429-97bf-2971f4dba202(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>> I am a 28 year old male, weighing approx 200lbs, with a total
> >>>>> thyroidectomy (2002), on 175 mcg of synthroid. For many years I have
> >>>>> been on 200mcg of synthroid. It was changed to 175mcg maybe 4-5 months
> >>>>> ago. Over the last two-three months, I have noticed a considerable
> >>>>> lack of energy and weight gain and I haven't been pigging out either.
> >>>>> On some days, I am perfect, I get up in the morning well rested, and
> >>>>> things are perfect and I have tremendous energy. On these days, I tend
> >>>>> to overwork and to the end of the day, I am energetic and happy. On
> >>>>> other days, especially on days after the days of tremendous energy, I
> >>>>> am down, my body sort of cramped up, my joints ache, I have no energy
> >>>>> and I feel bloated. On these days I get no work done, and this is very
> >>>>> frustrating. I seem to have become very sensitive to the amount of
> >>>>> sleep I get, I cannot seem to pull-through on 6 hours sleep. I seem to
> >>>>> need 9 hours.
> >>>>> My doctor seems to think that 175 mcg of synthroid is perfect for me.
> >>>>> Are these symptoms of underdosing? Perhaps it's just the fact that I
> >>>>> am 50lbs overweight. Is there anything else I should try? Vitamin
> >>>>> supplements maybe?. Would anti-depressants help?
> >>>>> Confused..
> >>>>> -Amit
>
> I agree with Elizabeth. Under-dosed and keep off the anti-depressants.
>
> Just guessing, but it could be that some days you need/use slightly more
> thyroid hormone than others. On a 'good' day, the 175 is just enough, on
> a 'bad' day, you need more.
>
> This need could be real - but it could be to do with how well you are
> absorbing the thyroxine. Do you take it first thing in the morning on an
> empty stomach? And then not have breakfast for quite a while? Or could
> foods (especially calcium-containing ones like milk) or supplements
> (especially magnesium or aluminium based antacids or iron) be affecting
> that? And there are various foods such as soya which can affect things.
>
> You might consider supplementing with potassium (e.g. potassium
> gluconate 100mg - five a day) and magnesium (e.g. 150mg magnesium
> citrate). Also, it is *very* common for hypoTs to not have sufficient
> vitamin B12 (suggest 1000mcg a day) - but that seems to need some B6 and
> C to work properly. But your wellness on some days tends to suggest that
> you are not too bad at all in these areas.
>
> --
> Rod
>
> Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
> onset.
> Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
> <www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

I know I am not supposed to do this, but, I woke up tired and
sluggish again, all muscles aching, and seemingly my brain as well.
And lack of sleep could not have been the cause, I got more than eight
hours. I took my 175mcg pill, hoping things would get better. Half an
hour or so, into it, things didn't change. So, in desperation, I took
a 100mcg pill I had lying around. And voila. I've never felt better.
Enthusiastic, that's the word.

-Amit


From: nora on 11 Aug 2008 07:42
What was your TSH before the dose reduction, and what is it now?

There are tens of thousands of postings on the internet about problems
like that, namely TSH getting low on the right dose of thyroid hormone
replacement.
Before, doctors thought one was dosed correctly with a low TSH.
But then at one time a new fad appeared, that some doctors thought low TSH
was bad for everyone.

In reality, low TSH is bad for some, but a lot of us need to be dosed by
ft4 qand ft3 instead, and we get low TSH when correctly dosed.

This is because of a number of rasones, amongst them antibodies, and the
other reason is that the pituitary is very sensitive to exogenous thyroid
hormone.

It is debated that low TSH may have something to do with bones, that the
activity of the osteoclasts is greater with a low TSH.
But the experts still say this is controversial, and that in reality
ecxess t4 does that to bones, much more than low TSH. In fact, one needs
enough thyroid hormones to build bones too.
I have posted a lot of liks about that discussion and the mice thing on
the thyroid.about.com forum a while ago. Maybe I remember to post the link
later when I get home... (I think the discussion was named why doctors do
not like low TSH)

nora

--
Posted from the AST website
http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/index.php
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
From: amit.karandikar.2008 on 14 Aug 2008 12:00
On Aug 11, 7:42 am, "nora" <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> What was your TSH before the dose reduction, and what is it now?
>
> There are tens of thousands of postings on the internet about problems
> like that, namely TSH getting low on the right dose of thyroid hormone
> replacement.
> Before, doctors thought one was dosed correctly with a low TSH.
> But then at one time a new fad appeared, that some doctors thought low TSH
> was bad for everyone.
>
> In reality, low TSH is bad for some, but a lot of us need to be dosed by
> ft4 qand ft3 instead, and we get low TSH when correctly dosed.
>
> This is because of a number of rasones, amongst them antibodies, and the
> other reason is that the pituitary is very sensitive to exogenous thyroid
> hormone.
>
> It is debated that low TSH may have something to do with bones, that the
> activity of the osteoclasts is greater with a low TSH.
> But the experts still say this is controversial, and that in reality
> ecxess t4 does that to bones, much more than low TSH. In fact, one needs
> enough thyroid hormones to build bones too.
> I have posted a lot of liks about  that discussion and the mice thing on
> the thyroid.about.com forum a while ago. Maybe I remember to post the link
> later when I get home... (I think the discussion was named why doctors do
> not like low TSH)
>
> nora
>
> --
> Posted from the AST websitehttp://www.altsupportthyroid.org/index.php
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

Nora,

Unfortunately, I haven't kept good records so I don't know I what my
dosage is. I usually took what the doctor told me to and things
usually turned out well. I've had a blood test today, I'll know the
result next week. I'm completely out of sorts. I couldn't sleep last
night because my heart was pounding and I sweat on the least
provocation. I haven't felt like this in the 6 years since the
thyroidectomy.

-Amit
From: Elizabeth on 14 Aug 2008 14:00
Amit,

This means you are now overdosed. A very little medication change can make a
big difference. You may need to be between 175 and 200mcg. You may need to
take one pill that is 175 and get a pill-splitting device (found at
drugstores) to split a 25 mcg pill and take half each day. Or, alternate
between 175 and 200 each day. I am assuming you tried to go back up to 200
and not more -- recently you posted that you supplemented your daily 175 mcg
dose with a 100 mcg pill that you had lying around. You don't want to do
this very often, or you will be severely overdosed at 275!

Best of luck,
Elizabeth

<amit.karandikar.2008(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:faf8f001-ac88-4f28-8c5a-271b6ce19c17(a)z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 11, 7:42 am, "nora" <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote:
> What was your TSH before the dose reduction, and what is it now?
>
> There are tens of thousands of postings on the internet about problems
> like that, namely TSH getting low on the right dose of thyroid hormone
> replacement.
> Before, doctors thought one was dosed correctly with a low TSH.
> But then at one time a new fad appeared, that some doctors thought low TSH
> was bad for everyone.
>
> In reality, low TSH is bad for some, but a lot of us need to be dosed by
> ft4 qand ft3 instead, and we get low TSH when correctly dosed.
>
> This is because of a number of rasones, amongst them antibodies, and the
> other reason is that the pituitary is very sensitive to exogenous thyroid
> hormone.
>
> It is debated that low TSH may have something to do with bones, that the
> activity of the osteoclasts is greater with a low TSH.
> But the experts still say this is controversial, and that in reality
> ecxess t4 does that to bones, much more than low TSH. In fact, one needs
> enough thyroid hormones to build bones too.
> I have posted a lot of liks about that discussion and the mice thing on
> the thyroid.about.com forum a while ago. Maybe I remember to post the link
> later when I get home... (I think the discussion was named why doctors do
> not like low TSH)
>
> nora
>
> --
> Posted from the AST websitehttp://www.altsupportthyroid.org/index.php
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

Nora,

Unfortunately, I haven't kept good records so I don't know I what my
dosage is. I usually took what the doctor told me to and things
usually turned out well. I've had a blood test today, I'll know the
result next week. I'm completely out of sorts. I couldn't sleep last
night because my heart was pounding and I sweat on the least
provocation. I haven't felt like this in the 6 years since the
thyroidectomy.

-Amit


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