Zen and Vegetarianism
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From: NYC XYZ on 31 Aug 2006 22:54 Was the Buddha a vegetarian? Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist? I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself. When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order. Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries? Just curious. I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite, but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring.... Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax, man!
From: Sphere on 31 Aug 2006 23:47 NYC XYZ wrote: > Was the Buddha a vegetarian? No. Devadatta tried to make the Sangha vegetarian and Buddha rejected the suggestion. > > Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist? > > I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself. In the 'primative' Sangha the Arhats were instructed not to eat meat they knew was specifically slaughtered for their consumption -- but they were to eat meat which was provided in their daily alms rounds. In many parts of the world -- such as Tibet -- being vegetarian equalled being dead. > When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If > it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order. > > Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries? > > Just curious. > > I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that > still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at > all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite, > but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life > seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring.... > > Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax, > man! I personally don't see any moral distinction between eating animals and eating plants. Both are composed of cells, and cells are sentient. Killing is unfortunate and to be avoided as far as possible, but it is also unavoidable. --- No essence. No permanence. No perfection. Only action. P.S. Deva is Pali for god, and atta is Pali for Self. Devadatta looks suspiciously like "god self" to me...
From: dkotschess@yahoo.com on 1 Sep 2006 08:38 NYC XYZ wrote: > Was the Buddha a vegetarian? Not really. > Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist? No. > I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself. > When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If > it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order. You are a carnivore, actually an omnivore, regardless of what you choose to eat. Even so-called vegetarians are omnivores, unless they have found some way of altering their DNA. > Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries? Well I'm sure it varies. The place where I go has the occasional option to eat something that contains meat, which is usually Sundays when they invite the community to the service and lunch afterwards. Seems like they always have pasta on sundays and you have a choice of meat sauce. > Just curious. > > I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that > still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at > all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite, > but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life > seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring.... Healthy vegetarianism is good if you can afford it. A lot of vegetarians eat a lot of starches and crappy processed foods and are undernourished and slightly ill most of the time. Most of them are frauds. I'm convinced that a proper, healthy vegetarian diet is out of my budget and not very practical, unless I want to eat beans and rice 4 times a week. WRT to milk, I always drink soy milk, as I'm a bit lactose intolerant, plus I just like the stuff better. It is of course, more expensive. I have been staying with my mother for awhile who pretty much insists on feeding me, with which I can't argue, as she is a mom and that's what they do. Her cooking, while fantastic, is very meat oriented and I am getting fat. I am looking forward to getting back on my own in October. My strategy is to replace at least 2 or 3 meat meals a week with fish, and start to seek out other non meat sources of protien, but I can't see ever going vegetarian completely. For ethical reasons you can also check into free-range, but even that is questionable. I know of a free-range "farm" where chickens are kept in cages and allowed, once a week, when a door swings open, to roam in a tiny little yard outside the barn. Thing is, when the door swings open, they just sit there wanting nothing to do with the Big Scary Outside. This may be an extreme example but disconcerting nonetheless. > Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax, > man! I would say instead of worrying about what you are eating, pay attention to your attitude about eating. Try and be mindful and grateful for it instead of fretting about whether you are violating some ethical standard. Eating is easily taken for granted when you can do it all day. But life will always feed on life whether it's an animal or plant. It's conservation. It's just how it is. -DaveK
From: dkotschess@yahoo.com on 1 Sep 2006 09:13 dkotschess(a)yahoo.com wrote: > NYC XYZ wrote: > > Was the Buddha a vegetarian? > > Not really. > > > Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist? > > No. > > > I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself. > > When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If > > it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order. > > You are a carnivore, actually an omnivore, regardless of what you > choose to eat. Even so-called vegetarians are omnivores, unless they > have found some way of altering their DNA. > > > Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries? > > Well I'm sure it varies. The place where I go has the occasional > option to eat something that contains meat, which is usually Sundays > when they invite the community to the service and lunch afterwards. > Seems like they always have pasta on sundays and you have a choice of > meat sauce. > > > Just curious. > > > > I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that > > still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at > > all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite, > > but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life > > seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring.... > > Healthy vegetarianism is good if you can afford it. A lot of > vegetarians eat a lot of starches and crappy processed foods and are > undernourished and slightly ill most of the time. Most of them are > frauds. I'm convinced that a proper, healthy vegetarian diet is out of > my budget and not very practical, unless I want to eat beans and rice 4 > times a week. WRT to milk, I always drink soy milk, as I'm a bit > lactose intolerant, plus I just like the stuff better. It is of > course, more expensive. > > I have been staying with my mother for awhile who pretty much insists > on feeding me, with which I can't argue, as she is a mom and that's > what they do. Her cooking, while fantastic, is very meat oriented and > I am getting fat. I am looking forward to getting back on my own in > October. My strategy is to replace at least 2 or 3 meat meals a week > with fish, and start to seek out other non meat sources of protien, but > I can't see ever going vegetarian completely. > > For ethical reasons you can also check into free-range, but even that > is questionable. I know of a free-range "farm" where chickens are kept > in cages and allowed, once a week, when a door swings open, to roam in > a tiny little yard outside the barn. Thing is, when the door swings > open, they just sit there wanting nothing to do with the Big Scary > Outside. This may be an extreme example but disconcerting nonetheless. > > > > Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax, > > man! > > I would say instead of worrying about what you are eating, pay > attention to your attitude about eating. Try and be mindful and > grateful for it instead of fretting about whether you are violating > some ethical standard. Eating is easily taken for granted when you can > do it all day. But life will always feed on life whether it's an animal > or plant. It's conservation. It's just how it is. > > -DaveK BTW, this might be worth looking into. I haven't bought it yet: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0892819383/qid=1137254054/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/104-0541359-0991950?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 It's recipes based in the Ayurvedic tradition. One of my best friends is a yoga practitioner who has told me again and again about how practical the ayurvedic diet is and now swears by it. Somebody from the Yoga newsgroup recommended this book to me. Looking upon yogis as our spiritual relatives in the zen tradition I think it is wise to consider they might have something here.
From: brother on 1 Sep 2006 09:52
Sphere wrote: > NYC XYZ wrote: >> Was the Buddha a vegetarian? > > No. Devadatta tried to make the Sangha > vegetarian and Buddha rejected the suggestion. > >> Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist? >> >> I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself. > > In the 'primative' Sangha the Arhats were instructed > not to eat meat they knew was specifically slaughtered > for their consumption -- but they were to eat meat > which was provided in their daily alms rounds. > > In many parts of the world -- such as Tibet -- being > vegetarian equalled being dead. > > >> When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If >> it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order. >> >> Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries? >> >> Just curious. >> >> I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that >> still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at >> all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite, >> but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life >> seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring.... >> >> Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax, >> man! > > I personally don't see any moral distinction between > eating animals and eating plants. Both are composed of > cells, and cells are sentient. Killing is unfortunate and > to be avoided as far as possible, but it is also unavoidable. I can excuse ignorance, but stupidity annoys me. CELLS are NOT sentient! Plants are not capable of consciousness, and therefore unable to be sentient. I think you've made a rule to suit your particular existing dietary wants. - Moral and intellectual laziness. > --- > No essence. No permanence. No perfection. Only action. > > P.S. Deva is Pali for god, and atta is Pali for Self. Devadatta > looks suspiciously like "god self" to me... > |