Western and Eastern Medicine Compared
in [Fibromyalgia]
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From: yinyangdragons on 11 Apr 2006 00:29 Western and Eastern Medicine Compared Ever seen that drawing of two silhouettes looking at each other? One moment you see two faces, the next moment, its a vase. Which is it? Obviously it is just a matter of your perception or the way your brain links together visual clues. That's the difference between Western medicine, and Chinese or Oriental medicine. Diagnosing the same patient with tremors in her hands, the Western doctor might perform tests to determine if there is a problem in the brain giving rise to Parkinson's disease. Perhaps they would look to the spinal column to explain the neuromuscular problem, a brain lesion might be sought out with an MRI. However, a practitioner of Chinese medicine would quickly know that the problem is that there is wind blowing around in the acupuncture channels. Then they would seek to determine the cause of the internal wind which could be a deficiency of Blood, body fluids, Qi energy or perhaps a high fever. The practitioner of Chinese medicine would look to the color and shape of the tongue to determine what is deficient that is giving rise to the wind, they would feel the pulse on the wrist to determine a specific pulse quality that might lead one to a specific diagnosis that includes both the manifestations and cause. Same symptoms, same signs, same patient, but very different ways of organizing the information. Within each discipline, there is an enormous amount of time tested information that has its own logic and usefulness. Both Western and Chinese systems have their place. Some believe that the greatest strength of Western Medicine is in it's trauma care and therapies for acute problems, while Chinese medicine excels in the areas of chronic problems and preventive medicine. One concept that is central to Chinese medicine that the scientific world is still struggling to accept is an internal substance that the Chinese call "Qi" (pronounced "chee", sometimes spelled "Chi"). In the West we could describe this as bio-electric energy. You can't look at it under a microscope, you can't detect it with any scientific instruments, you can't isolate it from a substrate. This isn't to say that one cannot feel it, or see it, but these are intuitive human qualities that practitioners of Chinese medicine develop over years of practice. Many westerners can also perceive this Qi energy. Martial artists sometimes feel it as heat in the palms of their hands, or warm liquid moving through the body. It is the invisible substance in mountain air that clears the mind with just one deep breath. Acupuncture seeks to treat health on the level of Qi. There are pathways in the human body wherein this Qi flows. They are called meridians, or channels. Needles inserted along these meridians influence the Qi that flows to internal organs. It can affect both the structure and function of these organs. Needles can also work on specific areas of pain that may not be associated with internal problems, sport injuries, for example. A needle inserted near the area of a pulled tendon or overstrained muscle will increase the flow of Qi to that area which removes pain and quickens the healing process. Another aspect of the difference between Oriental and Western medicine can be described as Oriental treats the Yang and Western treats the Yin. Everything in the universe can be described in terms of Yin or Yang. This is one of the underlying philosophies of Oriental Medicine. The Chinese characters for Yin and Yang mean, literally, the sunny side of the hill and the shady side of the hill. Yin is the feminine qualities in the universe, Yang is the masculine qualities. Yin Yang passive active dark light inside outside As applied to Western medicine Yin Yang Anatomy Physiology As applied to Oriental medicine Yin Yang Blood Qi energy When applied to medicine in general, Western medicine acts upon the Yin of the body, the substance of the body, the actual cells and chemicals. Oriental medicine works more on the energy that animates those cells. What Western medicine tends to diagnose and treat is the effect that the disease state has on the body itself. The Practitioner of Oriental medicine diagnoses and acts upon the energy that creates the disease state. In ancient Greece, where Western civilization was born, the medicine of the day mimicked Oriental medicine in that they looked at the body with analogies to nature in much the same way that Oriental medicine still does. However, with the invention of the microscope and the discovery of the cell, Western medicine became very materialistic in its approach to the human body. When I say materialistic, I'm not talking about an unhealthy attachment to money, but the sense that only the material of the body is real, nothing else. If you can't touch it, see it under a microscope or conceive of it in chemical equations then it doesn't really exist. It is a discipline that is based on the philosophy that only what exists in the physical realm is real. This is materialism. In Oriental terms, this is "Yin." Oriental medicine acts upon the Yang of the body. Another way to describe this is to say that Oriental medicine acts upon the Qi energy. It is said that Yin and Yang are always connected. Acting upon the Yin will effect that Yang, and visa-versa. If we look at body fluids such as Blood as yin, which is a visible material, and Qi as the Yang, then the ancient statement is true that "Blood is the mother of Qi and Qi rules the Blood." By acting upon the Qi, pathology involving the Blood is rectified. From the Oriental perspective, it is a deeper, more causal approach to medicine than Western medicine. It is this difference between acting upon the body's energy and acting upon the body's material that makes up the most significant difference between these two major medical disciplines. Currently, in the West, there is a great deal of research being done on the effects of acupuncture, Chinese herbs and even disciplines such as Qi Gong. It is the opinion of the author that much of this research is presenting false results due to one simple fact, and that is that it only measures the body's reaction to the Oriental medicine from the materialistic "Yin" standpoint. To record this and call it scientific knowledge is okay, but to limit the understanding of Oriental medicine to what is discovered in research is misguided. I've seen many people research Oriental medicine to determine not how the herb or acupuncture treatment works from the Oriental perspective, but from how it "really" works, which is to say how it works from the Western perspective. If we give an acupuncture treatment that is designed solely to activate the Qi in the body, many unusual aches and pains within the patient will be abated. When modern Western research attempts to determine what happened to take away the pain they'll look toward endorphin release in the nervous system, the body's natural pain killers. They may even find a higher prevalence of these pain killers in the blood stream which confirms that this is what acupuncture "really" does, but this is only the body's response to what "really" happened from the Oriental viewpoint. This is the law of Yang controlling Yin. What "really" happened is the Qi energy that wasn't moving well, was activated to move better. However, this is never understood, nor researched. And I believe that this is truly unfortunate. It is because of this materialistic approach to medicine that so many alternative treatments are written off to the placebo effect, or the end of symptoms because the patient believes that they are supposed to end. And it is this same approach that so many very real diseases avoid understanding by Western medicine. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Fibromyalgia are but a few common conditions that Western medicine considers "idiopathic" which means that the cause is unknown. In Chinese medicine, the cause is quite simply a stagnation of the flow of Qi energy due to a small variety of factors. The fact is, the cause is not physical, however the symptoms are. Western medicine can see and measure certain changes in the body's chemistry and functional activities with these conditions, but cannot act upon these changes for lack of understanding of their cause. The symptoms are too divergent and unrelated from a materialistic standpoint. But when you factor in Qi energy and its properties, all these conditions make perfect sense. When reading research on Chinese medicine, I invite the reader to keep in mind that reseach only measures the body's physical response to the changes that have been induced by the changes in the flow of Qi energy in the body. Research gives you half the story, and the other half is what the XXXXXXX Acublog is all about. Finally, I applaud practitioners of Western medicine who are sincere enough about treating their patients that they are beginning to utilize acupuncture. I caution these practitioners, and patients who seek out their assistance, to understand that sticking needles into muscles that hurt to take away the pain is among the most superficial applications of Oriental medicine available. We're glad that MD's can help you in this manner, but we're also a little peeved that some MD's will poo-poo Oriental medicine for any internal or idiopathic problems. Oriental medicine has a great deal to offer the Western discipline of internal medicine, perhaps more than the "pain control" applications that are finally being accepted in the Western medical community. Ten years ago, using acupuncture for muscular pain control too, was considered quite silly. In another ten years, I hope that we'll see a greater acceptance of Oriental medicine's true genius, and this is in the area of Internal medicine. For patients who live in areas where acupuncturists are not allowed to practice, then only MD's will be available for acupuncture treatments. MD's with a scanty 200 hour education in acupuncture will likely do a wonderful job at taking away your muscular pain. It's really quite easy. But for anything else, it would be a really good idea to search out a practitioner who has been trained in traditional Oriental medical theory. Many MD's have been, so don't let the fact that they're also trained in Western medicine fool you. They may be able to provide you with the help necessary to act upon the Yang in your body as well as the Yin. Name and website withheld to anoy the trolls on this group who think they know evetything. Kelvin
From: CHEEKY BASTARD on 11 Apr 2006 01:16 1.what is it that you think you are trying to prove here to everyone? I know I'm not sure what your point is. 2. F7 is spellcheck or are you too cheap to own office? CB yinyangdragons(a)gmail.com wrote: > Western and Eastern Medicine Compared > > > > Ever seen that drawing of two silhouettes looking at each other? One > moment you see two faces, the next moment, its a vase. Which is it? > Obviously it is just a matter of your perception or the way your brain > links together visual clues. > That's the difference between Western medicine, and Chinese or > Oriental medicine. Diagnosing the same patient with tremors in her > hands, the Western doctor might perform tests to determine if there > is a problem in the brain giving rise to Parkinson's disease. Perhaps > they would look to the spinal column to explain the neuromuscular > problem, a brain lesion might be sought out with an MRI. However, a > practitioner of Chinese medicine would quickly know that the problem > is that there is wind blowing around in the acupuncture channels. > Then they would seek to determine the cause of the internal wind > which could be a deficiency of Blood, body fluids, Qi energy or > perhaps a high fever. The practitioner of Chinese medicine would look > to the color and shape of the tongue to determine what is deficient > that is giving rise to the wind, they would feel the pulse on the > wrist to determine a specific pulse quality that might lead one to a > specific diagnosis that includes both the manifestations and cause. > Same symptoms, same signs, same patient, but very different ways of > organizing the information. > Within each discipline, there is an enormous amount of time tested > information that has its own logic and usefulness. Both Western and > Chinese systems have their place. Some believe that the greatest > strength of Western Medicine is in it's trauma care and therapies for > acute problems, while Chinese medicine excels in the areas of chronic > problems and preventive medicine. > One concept that is central to Chinese medicine that the scientific > world is still struggling to accept is an internal substance that the > Chinese call "Qi" (pronounced "chee", sometimes spelled "Chi"). In the > West we could describe this as bio-electric energy. You can't look at > it under a microscope, you can't detect it with any scientific > instruments, you can't isolate it from a substrate. This isn't to say > that one cannot feel it, or see it, but these are intuitive human > qualities that practitioners of Chinese medicine develop over years of > practice. Many westerners can also perceive this Qi energy. Martial > artists sometimes feel it as heat in the palms of their hands, or warm > liquid moving through the body. It is the invisible substance in > mountain air that clears the mind with just one deep breath. > Acupuncture seeks to treat health on the level of Qi. There are > pathways in the human body wherein this Qi flows. They are called > meridians, or channels. Needles inserted along these meridians > influence the Qi that flows to internal organs. It can affect both the > structure and function of these organs. Needles can also work on > specific areas of pain that may not be associated with internal > problems, sport injuries, for example. A needle inserted near the area > of a pulled tendon or overstrained muscle will increase the flow of Qi > to that area which removes pain and quickens the healing process. > Another aspect of the difference between Oriental and Western medicine > can be described as Oriental treats the Yang and Western treats the > Yin. Everything in the universe can be described in terms of Yin or > Yang. This is one of the underlying philosophies of Oriental Medicine. > The Chinese characters for Yin and Yang mean, literally, the sunny > side of the hill and the shady side of the hill. Yin is the feminine > qualities in the universe, Yang is the masculine qualities. > Yin Yang > passive active > dark light > inside outside > > As applied to Western medicine > Yin Yang > Anatomy Physiology > > As applied to Oriental medicine > Yin Yang > Blood Qi energy > > When applied to medicine in general, Western medicine acts upon the > Yin of the body, the substance of the body, the actual cells and > chemicals. Oriental medicine works more on the energy that animates > those cells. What Western medicine tends to diagnose and treat is the > effect that the disease state has on the body itself. The > Practitioner of Oriental medicine diagnoses and acts upon the energy > that creates the disease state. > In ancient Greece, where Western civilization was born, the medicine > of the day mimicked Oriental medicine in that they looked at the body > with analogies to nature in much the same way that Oriental medicine > still does. However, with the invention of the microscope and the > discovery of the cell, Western medicine became very materialistic in > its approach to the human body. > When I say materialistic, I'm not talking about an unhealthy > attachment to money, but the sense that only the material of the body > is real, nothing else. If you can't touch it, see it under a > microscope or conceive of it in chemical equations then it doesn't > really exist. It is a discipline that is based on the philosophy that > only what exists in the physical realm is real. This is materialism. > In Oriental terms, this is "Yin." > Oriental medicine acts upon the Yang of the body. Another way to > describe this is to say that Oriental medicine acts upon the Qi > energy. It is said that Yin and Yang are always connected. Acting > upon the Yin will effect that Yang, and visa-versa. If we look at > body fluids such as Blood as yin, which is a visible material, and Qi > as the Yang, then the ancient statement is true that "Blood is the > mother of Qi and Qi rules the Blood." > By acting upon the Qi, pathology involving the Blood is rectified. > From the Oriental perspective, it is a deeper, more causal approach to > medicine than Western medicine. It is this difference between acting > upon the body's energy and acting upon the body's material that makes > up the most significant difference between these two major medical > disciplines. > Currently, in the West, there is a great deal of research being done > on the effects of acupuncture, Chinese herbs and even disciplines > such as Qi Gong. It is the opinion of the author that much of this > research is presenting false results due to one simple fact, and that > is that it only measures the body's reaction to the Oriental medicine > from the materialistic "Yin" standpoint. To record this and call it > scientific knowledge is okay, but to limit the understanding of > Oriental medicine to what is discovered in research is misguided. > I've seen many people research Oriental medicine to determine not how > the herb or acupuncture treatment works from the Oriental perspective, > but from how it "really" works, which is to say how it works from the > Western perspective. > If we give an acupuncture treatment that is designed solely to > activate the Qi in the body, many unusual aches and pains within the > patient will be abated. When modern Western research attempts to > determine what happened to take away the pain they'll look toward > endorphin release in the nervous system, the body's natural pain > killers. They may even find a higher prevalence of these pain killers > in the blood stream which confirms that this is what acupuncture > "really" does, but this is only the body's response to what "really" > happened from the Oriental viewpoint. This is the law of Yang > controlling Yin. What "really" happened is the Qi energy that wasn't > moving well, was activated to move better. However, this is never > understood, nor researched. And I believe that this is truly > unfortunate. > It is because of this materialistic approach to medicine that so many > alternative treatments are written off to the placebo effect, or the > end of symptoms because the patient believes that they are supposed to > end. > And it is this same approach that so many very real diseases avoid > understanding by Western medicine. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Irritable > Bowel Syndrome, Fibromyalgia are but a few common conditions that > Western medicine considers "idiopathic" which means that the cause is > unknown. In Chinese medicine, the cause is quite simply a stagnation > of the flow of Qi energy due to a small variety of factors. > The fact is, the cause is not physical, however the symptoms are. > Western medicine can see and measure certain changes in the body's > chemistry and functional activities with these conditions, but cannot > act upon these changes for lack of understanding of their cause. The > symptoms are too divergent and unrelated from a materialistic > standpoint. But when you factor in Qi energy and its properties, all > these conditions make perfect sense. > When reading research on Chinese medicine, I invite the reader to keep > in mind that reseach only measures the body's physical response to the > changes that have been induced by the changes in the flow of Qi energy > in the body. Research gives you half the story, and the other half is > what the XXXXXXX Acublog is all about. > Finally, I applaud practitioners of Western medicine who are sincere > enough about treating their patients that they are beginning to > utilize acupuncture. I caution these practitioners, and patients who > seek out their assistance, to understand that sticking needles into > muscles that hurt to take away the pain is among the most superficial > applications of Oriental medicine available. We're glad that MD's can > help you in this manner, but we're also a little peeved that some > MD's will poo-poo Oriental medicine for any internal or idiopathic > problems. > Oriental medicine has a great deal to offer the Western discipline of > internal medicine, perhaps more than the "pain control" applications > that are finally being accepted in the Western medical community. Ten > years ago, using acupuncture for muscular pain control too, was > considered quite silly. In another ten years, I hope that we'll see a > greater acceptance of Oriental medicine's true genius, and this is in > the area of Internal medicine. > For patients who live in areas where acupuncturists are not allowed to > practice, then only MD's will be available for acupuncture treatments. > MD's with a scanty 200 hour education in acupuncture will likely do a > wonderful job at taking away your muscular pain. It's really quite > easy. But for anything else, it would be a really good idea to search > out a practitioner who has been trained in traditional Oriental > medical theory. Many MD's have been, so don't let the fact that > they're also trained in Western medicine fool you. They may be able > to provide you with the help necessary to act upon the Yang in your > body as well as the Yin. > > Name and website withheld to anoy the trolls on this group who think > they know evetything. > > Kelvin
From: Paul T. Holland on 11 Apr 2006 21:06 no, youngster - it's not about 'they know everything.' - but many here sure know a wide and varied amount that your 'impression' doesn't account for. let's address some of the things you have written in your various posts: yinyangdragons(a)gmail.com wrote: > Name and website withheld to anoy the trolls on this group who think > they know evetything. > > Kelvin you call someone a 'troll' for not agreeing with your appropriation of someone else's work: it's about honoring the work of others - in this post: Al Stone - beyondwellbeing.com by not attributing the actual author you are A) plagiarizing the work of another [ it's one of those pesky legal issues], and B) being supercilious towards those on this 'group who don't believe is presenting unattributed tracts... the only respectful [respect for the author] thing is to use quotation marking. you were called upon your first posting because you neither used quote markings, nor attributed it - thus giving some the entirely justified impression that it was being presented as 'your' writing. and, just for your information, for several folk here - perhaps many - nothing you've been posting is new or unknown. not the materials, nor the specific authors who wrote the pieces. the basic mistake you are making is to presume that you are the sole bearer of insight. rather than introduce yourself and ask for comment on what 'you' think, you just throw [ unattributed ] information out ... hardly the friendliest or most open approach...showing up unknown, using a new gmail addy , and plunking your anonymous self into a 'group is bound to raise the normal, human, question of 'who does this clown think he/she is dealing with?' an example is your writing >over 4000 yrs of clinical results... presumably you actually meant to write/convey 4000 years of empirically gathered data/information. given how so much of mankind's knowledge has been gathered thru 'trial and error' over millennia, 'clinical' only obscures your reasoning. and the literal term would only apply to contemporary times, which is clearly not what you meant for someone to understand - but it is what you wrote... or >Ying is a 24hr cycle not just nights. It follows the circadian rhythms... when - of course - the circadian rhythm is not a strict 24 hours cycle, but rather that of each individual body. some as short as 11 hours, some as long as 40+. you oversimplify a rather complex physiological occurrence and in doing so appear ignorant of the actuality. further, you write > Can't say that acupuncture as it is being practiced in the States or in China will work as it is an incomplete Comunist version of what it was. hmmmm...sorry that wherever you live that is the case. many that i know will disagree 'empirically' with you, i for one. i had my first traditionally [you wrote 'classic'] applied acupuncture treatments via referral by a western doctor to an 87 year old practitioner [no >shift in paradigm] in the lower east side of nyc in 1967. and have had no problem finding others as i had traveled and moved around this country and canada. i don't need to 'look it up', i've lived it. you also wrote: >Actually you don't add heat until 72 hrs later. When it is inflamed, hot you don't in duce heat. It will cause further >bleeding from the same rupture capillaries that the ice wouldn't let heal. overreaching in your conclusion. the total health and capability of the individual should determine the timing. by way of example i was taught how to open or constrict capillaries as a part of my meditation and energy work. however, excluding my personal example, you do not take into account those injuries where there is no rupture of capillaries, only fluid infusion for the strain. you wrote: >"san huang" which means three yellows more complete and factual, it is the names of The Legendary Three Sovereigns [emperors]: Fu Xi, Shen-nung, and Yen-ti whose teachings were of essential survival. just saying >"san huang" doesn't specify pian or the many other combinations yi gan, hsieh-hsin-tang, and on and on. are you aware that these, and so many others, have been studied for decades in virtually every western country? studied for the purpose of determining the actual active dosage levels since in raw, unprocessed form, active chemical levels vary so widely... you write: >Reiki is amazing, you should get back into it. without any background, or personal experience shared. not that i disagree with the comment, after all my stepbrother [now passed] is a reiki master and energy healer - >Why was there a ban on ephedra? hmmmm...mostly because of the widely inaccurate active dose amounts from tablet to tablet in Ma huang and sida cordifolia, and pinellia, shipment to shipment, as well as the significantly high occurrences of harmful substances like arsenic, mercury etc. found in shipments from undocumented factories overseas...and are you aware that something on the order of 95% of all samples tested from 'traditional' herbal dealers came up contaminated? to quote you: look it up. you'll find the agency has a high regard for history and tradition, but that doesn't outweigh the opportunistic and profit motivated purveyors selling tainted goods: "While respecting the traditional uses of herbal medicines, their long history of use, and their potential health benefits, NCCAM believes that ephedra poses unique public health risks that warrant the FDA's actions to prohibit the sale of ephedra-containing dietary supplements." as a result, you write in a rather pontifical manner, and it would be nice to think that was not your intention... this is only to point out that your personal experience seems to be quite limited. are you at all interested in the many wonderful 'other' experiences folks here have had? bottom line: you're coming across as presumptuous - and condescending...one reason [ but only one ] that i say condescending is your assumption that folk haven't had acquaintance with the authors you have copied from - that they would need to google it... on the theory that you do not intend for anything like that impression to be given - care to start over? how about that old hi! my name is kelvin and here's some stuff i find really interesting and useful...what do you guys think? try enticing a 'discussion'; most here aren't interested in a lecture from an unknown entity. you might find folk here who know as much - or more - about it than you do... paul
From: yinyangdragons on 12 Apr 2006 01:35 You so full of misinformation I don't know where to begin. What do you do that lets you google things all day? The problem with the internet is that anyone can sit and think they are know stuff but with out the back ground there information is just superficial or worse, inaccurate. The other problem is that people like me also know how to google and look what I found on you. http://www.masterjuba.com/kook.htm http://www.masterjuba.com/holland.htm Have a nice night "kook", and be sure to kiss Susie good night for me. Kelvin Paul T. Holland wrote: > no, youngster - it's not about 'they know everything.' - > > but many here sure know a wide and varied amount that your 'impression' > doesn't account for. > > let's address some of the things you have written in your various posts: > > yinyangdragons(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > Name and website withheld to anoy the trolls on this group who think > > they know evetything. > > > > Kelvin > > you call someone a 'troll' for not agreeing with your appropriation of > someone else's work: > > it's about honoring the work of others - in this post: Al Stone - > beyondwellbeing.com > > by not attributing the actual author you are > > A) plagiarizing the work of another [ it's one of those pesky legal > issues], and > B) being supercilious towards those on this 'group who don't believe is > presenting unattributed tracts... > > the only respectful [respect for the author] thing is to use quotation > marking. > > you were called upon your first posting because you neither used quote > markings, nor attributed it - thus giving some the entirely justified > impression that it was being presented as 'your' writing. > > and, just for your information, for several folk here - perhaps many - > nothing you've been posting is new or unknown. > not the materials, nor the specific authors who wrote the pieces. > > the basic mistake you are making is to presume that you are the sole bearer > of insight. rather than introduce yourself and ask for comment on what > 'you' think, you just throw [ unattributed ] information out ... > > hardly the friendliest or most open approach...showing up unknown, using a > new gmail addy , and plunking your anonymous self into a 'group is bound to > raise the normal, human, question of 'who does this clown think he/she is > dealing with?' > > an example is your writing > > >over 4000 yrs of clinical results... > > presumably you actually meant to write/convey 4000 years of empirically > gathered data/information. > > given how so much of mankind's knowledge has been gathered thru 'trial and > error' over millennia, 'clinical' only obscures your reasoning. and the > literal term would only apply to contemporary times, which is clearly not > what you meant for someone to understand - but it is what you wrote... > > or > > >Ying is a 24hr cycle not just nights. It follows the circadian rhythms... > > when - of course - the circadian rhythm is not a strict 24 hours cycle, but > rather that of each individual body. some as short as 11 hours, some as > long as 40+. you oversimplify a rather complex physiological occurrence and > in doing so appear ignorant of the actuality. > > further, you write > Can't say that acupuncture as it is being practiced in > the States or in China will work as it is an incomplete Comunist version > of what it was. > > hmmmm...sorry that wherever you live that is the case. > > many that i know will disagree 'empirically' with you, i for one. > > i had my first traditionally [you wrote 'classic'] applied acupuncture > treatments via referral by a western doctor to an 87 year old practitioner > [no >shift in paradigm] in the lower east side of nyc in 1967. and have had > no problem finding others as i had traveled and moved around this country > and canada. i don't need to 'look it up', i've lived it. > > you also wrote: > >Actually you don't add heat until 72 hrs later. When it is inflamed, hot > you don't in duce heat. It will cause further >bleeding from the same > rupture capillaries that the ice wouldn't let heal. > > overreaching in your conclusion. the total health and capability of the > individual should determine the timing. by way of example i was taught how > to open or constrict capillaries as a part of my meditation and energy > work. however, excluding my personal example, you do not take into account > those injuries where there is no rupture of capillaries, only fluid > infusion for the strain. > > you wrote: > >"san huang" which means three yellows > > more complete and factual, it is the names of The Legendary Three > Sovereigns [emperors]: Fu Xi, Shen-nung, and Yen-ti > whose teachings were of essential survival. just saying >"san huang" > doesn't specify pian or the many other combinations yi gan, > hsieh-hsin-tang, and on and on. > > are you aware that these, and so many others, have been studied for decades > in virtually every western country? studied for the purpose of determining > the actual active dosage levels since in raw, unprocessed form, active > chemical levels vary so widely... > > you write: > >Reiki is amazing, you should get back into it. > > without any background, or personal experience shared. not that i disagree > with the comment, after all my stepbrother [now passed] is a reiki master > and energy healer - > > >Why was there a ban on ephedra? > > hmmmm...mostly because of the widely inaccurate active dose amounts from > tablet to tablet in Ma huang and sida cordifolia, and pinellia, shipment to > shipment, as well as the significantly high occurrences of harmful > substances like arsenic, mercury etc. found in shipments from undocumented > factories overseas...and are you aware that something on the order of 95% > of all samples tested from 'traditional' herbal dealers came up > contaminated? > > to quote you: look it up. you'll find the agency has a high regard for > history and tradition, but that doesn't outweigh the opportunistic and > profit motivated purveyors selling tainted goods: > > "While respecting the traditional uses of herbal medicines, their long > history of use, and their potential health benefits, NCCAM believes that > ephedra poses unique public health risks that warrant the FDA's actions to > prohibit the sale of ephedra-containing dietary supplements." > > as a result, you write in a rather pontifical manner, and it would be nice > to think that was not your intention... > > this is only to point out that your personal experience seems to be quite > limited. are you at all interested in the many wonderful 'other' > experiences folks here have had? > > bottom line: you're coming across as presumptuous - and condescending...one > reason [ but only one ] that i say condescending is your assumption that > folk haven't had acquaintance with the authors you have copied from - that > they would need to google it... > > on the theory that you do not intend for anything like that impression to > be given - care to start over? > > how about that old hi! my name is kelvin and here's some stuff i find > really interesting and useful...what do you guys think? > > try enticing a 'discussion'; most here aren't interested in a lecture from > an unknown entity. you might find folk here who know as much - or more - > about it than you do... > > paul
From: CHEEKY BASTARD on 12 Apr 2006 04:28 Hey little ying ding dang. ??? Now you have proven you are another troll by digging out this flame bait. If you are so smart then post all the post where Juba is hated by many. This makes me want to dig around now on you. yinyangdragons(a)gmail.com wrote: > You so full of misinformation I don't know where to begin. What do > you do that lets you google things all day? What are clueless? Most people with CFS FMS do not work you idiot. >The problem with the > internet is that anyone can sit and think they are know stuff but > with out the back ground there information is just superficial or > worse, inaccurate. Like you right? LOL >The other problem is that people like me also know > how to google and look what I found on you. > http://www.masterjuba.com/kook.htm > http://www.masterjuba.com/holland.htm > > Have a nice night "kook", and be sure to kiss Susie good night for me. > > Kelvin DUCK DUCK DUCK DUCK > > > > > > > Paul T. Holland wrote: >> no, youngster - it's not about 'they know everything.' - >> >> but many here sure know a wide and varied amount that your >> 'impression' doesn't account for. >> >> let's address some of the things you have written in your various >> posts: >> >> yinyangdragons(a)gmail.com wrote: >> >>> Name and website withheld to anoy the trolls on this group who think >>> they know evetything. >>> >>> Kelvin >> >> you call someone a 'troll' for not agreeing with your appropriation >> of someone else's work: >> >> it's about honoring the work of others - in this post: Al Stone - >> beyondwellbeing.com >> >> by not attributing the actual author you are >> >> A) plagiarizing the work of another [ it's one of those pesky legal >> issues], and >> B) being supercilious towards those on this 'group who don't believe >> is presenting unattributed tracts... >> >> the only respectful [respect for the author] thing is to use >> quotation marking. >> >> you were called upon your first posting because you neither used >> quote markings, nor attributed it - thus giving some the entirely >> justified impression that it was being presented as 'your' writing. >> >> and, just for your information, for several folk here - perhaps many >> - nothing you've been posting is new or unknown. >> not the materials, nor the specific authors who wrote the pieces. >> >> the basic mistake you are making is to presume that you are the sole >> bearer of insight. rather than introduce yourself and ask for >> comment on what 'you' think, you just throw [ unattributed ] >> information out ... >> >> hardly the friendliest or most open approach...showing up unknown, >> using a new gmail addy , and plunking your anonymous self into a >> 'group is bound to raise the normal, human, question of 'who does >> this clown think he/she is dealing with?' >> >> an example is your writing >> >>> over 4000 yrs of clinical results... >> >> presumably you actually meant to write/convey 4000 years of >> empirically gathered data/information. >> >> given how so much of mankind's knowledge has been gathered thru >> 'trial and error' over millennia, 'clinical' only obscures your >> reasoning. and the literal term would only apply to contemporary >> times, which is clearly not what you meant for someone to understand >> - but it is what you wrote... >> >> or >> >>> Ying is a 24hr cycle not just nights. It follows the circadian >>> rhythms... >> >> when - of course - the circadian rhythm is not a strict 24 hours >> cycle, but rather that of each individual body. some as short as 11 >> hours, some as long as 40+. you oversimplify a rather complex >> physiological occurrence and in doing so appear ignorant of the >> actuality. >> >> further, you write > Can't say that acupuncture as it is being >> practiced in the States or in China will work as it is an >> incomplete Comunist version of what it was. >> >> hmmmm...sorry that wherever you live that is the case. >> >> many that i know will disagree 'empirically' with you, i for one. >> >> i had my first traditionally [you wrote 'classic'] applied >> acupuncture treatments via referral by a western doctor to an 87 >> year old practitioner [no >shift in paradigm] in the lower east side >> of nyc in 1967. and have had no problem finding others as i had >> traveled and moved around this country and canada. i don't need to >> 'look it up', i've lived it. >> >> you also wrote: >>> Actually you don't add heat until 72 hrs later. When it is >>> inflamed, hot >> you don't in duce heat. It will cause further >bleeding from the >> same rupture capillaries that the ice wouldn't let heal. >> >> overreaching in your conclusion. the total health and capability of >> the individual should determine the timing. by way of example i was >> taught how to open or constrict capillaries as a part of my >> meditation and energy work. however, excluding my personal example, >> you do not take into account those injuries where there is no >> rupture of capillaries, only fluid infusion for the strain. >> >> you wrote: >>> "san huang" which means three yellows >> >> more complete and factual, it is the names of The Legendary Three >> Sovereigns [emperors]: Fu Xi, Shen-nung, and Yen-ti >> whose teachings were of essential survival. just saying >"san huang" >> doesn't specify pian or the many other combinations yi gan, >> hsieh-hsin-tang, and on and on. >> >> are you aware that these, and so many others, have been studied for >> decades in virtually every western country? studied for the purpose >> of determining the actual active dosage levels since in raw, >> unprocessed form, active chemical levels vary so widely... >> >> you write: >>> Reiki is amazing, you should get back into it. >> >> without any background, or personal experience shared. not that i >> disagree with the comment, after all my stepbrother [now passed] is >> a reiki master and energy healer - >> >>> Why was there a ban on ephedra? >> >> hmmmm...mostly because of the widely inaccurate active dose amounts >> from tablet to tablet in Ma huang and sida cordifolia, and pinellia, >> shipment to shipment, as well as the significantly high occurrences >> of harmful substances like arsenic, mercury etc. found in shipments >> from undocumented factories overseas...and are you aware that >> something on the order of 95% of all samples tested from >> 'traditional' herbal dealers came up contaminated? >> >> to quote you: look it up. you'll find the agency has a high regard >> for history and tradition, but that doesn't outweigh the >> opportunistic and profit motivated purveyors selling tainted goods: >> >> "While respecting the traditional uses of herbal medicines, their >> long history of use, and their potential health benefits, NCCAM >> believes that ephedra poses unique public health risks that warrant >> the FDA's actions to prohibit the sale of ephedra-containing dietary >> supplements." >> >> as a result, you write in a rather pontifical manner, and it would >> be nice to think that was not your intention... >> >> this is only to point out that your personal experience seems to be >> quite limited. are you at all interested in the many wonderful >> 'other' experiences folks here have had? >> >> bottom line: you're coming across as presumptuous - and >> condescending...one reason [ but only one ] that i say condescending >> is your assumption that folk haven't had acquaintance with the >> authors you have copied from - that they would need to google it... >> >> on the theory that you do not intend for anything like that >> impression to be given - care to start over? >> >> how about that old hi! my name is kelvin and here's some stuff i find >> really interesting and useful...what do you guys think? >> >> try enticing a 'discussion'; most here aren't interested in a >> lecture from an unknown entity. you might find folk here who know as >> much - or more - about it than you do... >> >> paul
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