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From: Erin on 8 Apr 2008 07:20


Jan Drew wrote:
> "LostBoyinNC"

Advocates of deinstitutionalization see the world
through rose-coloured glasses; completely blind to
the cruelty, humiliation and outcasting that society
throws on not just the mentally ill, but anyone who
does not fit in to their clique. That's why a lot of
mentally ill people who have no support end up on
the streets, in prostitution, abuse, or somehow taken advantage
of. For seriously ill people who need help, the solution is to
improve
hospitals, not to kick people out on the street.

"Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose.."

-
Janice Joplin


From: marcia on 8 Apr 2008 09:47
On Apr 7, 5:32 pm, Erin <squig...(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
> MothWrangler wrote:
> > Erin wrote:
>
> > > Twittering One wrote:
>
> > >>If admitted to a psych ward, the higher your chances later for killing
> > >>yourself, relative to non-admits, say studies.
>
> > > Not that i have great doubts, but a reference would be nice
> > > on such a controversial statement. I think small neighbourhood
> > > clinics
> > > would be so much better. The PQ gov. in Canada set them
> > > up in its wisdom, but they are out-clinics. Maybe the US has
> > > something similar? HMOs?
>
> > > Erin
>
> > If the studies didn't control for severity of illness, the claimed
> > results wouldn't be a surprise.
>
> > In the US, only the most severely mentally ill individuals tend to be
> > hospitalized in a psych ward. In many cases, the individuals are
> > admitted because they are a danger to themselves or others.
>
> > The less severely ill, or persons who aren't a danger to themselves or
> > others, usually are treated on a out-patient basis.
>
> > Given that the most ill and most dangerous are the patients
> > hospitalized, it wouldn't be surprising if, after release, they were
> > more likely to commit suicide.
>
> > Nancy
> > Unique, like everyone else
>
> > --
> > Proud member since 2007, WWWSC #1
> > Ann/Emma Anne #4
>
> But Twittering One said "relative to non-admits" which
> would indicate that the treatment itself may not be complete
> or good. That's why a ref. would be nice.
>
> Erin

It wouldn't be surprising if the treatment isn't complete. A typical
stay on a psych ward in the US today is about 72 hours - 1 week, just
long enough to get the patient superficially stabilized, but not long
enough to address serious, long-standing problems. Blame the insurance
companies and federal government, who decline to finance longer and
better treatment. We also have a shortage of psych beds (same reason),
which forces hospitals to have to turn the beds more quickly than in
the past.
From: marcia on 8 Apr 2008 09:50
On Apr 8, 7:20 am, Erin <squig...(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Jan Drew wrote:
> > "LostBoyinNC"
>
> Advocates of deinstitutionalization see the world
> through rose-coloured glasses; completely blind to
> the cruelty, humiliation and outcasting that society
> throws on not just the mentally ill, but anyone who
> does not fit in to their clique. That's why a lot of
> mentally ill people who have no support end up on
> the streets, in prostitution, abuse, or somehow taken advantage
> of. For seriously ill people who need help, the solution is to
> improve
> hospitals, not to kick people out on the street.
>
> "Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose.."
>
> -
> Janice Joplin

You forgot to mention, "or in jail"--one of the more popular dumping
grounds for deinstitutionalized mentally ill.
From: Erin on 8 Apr 2008 10:05


marcia wrote:
> On Apr 8, 7:20 am, Erin <squig...(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > Jan Drew wrote:
> > > "LostBoyinNC"
> >
> > Advocates of deinstitutionalization see the world
> > through rose-coloured glasses; completely blind to
> > the cruelty, humiliation and outcasting that society
> > throws on not just the mentally ill, but anyone who
> > does not fit in to their clique. That's why a lot of
> > mentally ill people who have no support end up on
> > the streets, in prostitution, abuse, or somehow taken advantage
> > of. For seriously ill people who need help, the solution is to
> > improve
> > hospitals, not to kick people out on the street.
> >
> > "Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose.."
> >
> > -
> > Janice Joplin
>
> You forgot to mention, "or in jail"--one of the more popular dumping
> grounds for deinstitutionalized mentally ill.

True, in the States it's scandalous -- and what a horrible place
for the mentally ill. The shortage of beds and resources does
not allow for the long-term stay that used to be the case pre-50s
anyway. That goes for all hospitals now--- they would rather you
were taken care of outside somehow.

Erin
From: marcia on 8 Apr 2008 10:08
On Apr 8, 10:05 am, Erin <squig...(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
> marcia wrote:
> > On Apr 8, 7:20 am, Erin <squig...(a)sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > > Jan Drew wrote:
> > > > "LostBoyinNC"
>
> > > Advocates of deinstitutionalization see the world
> > > through rose-coloured glasses; completely blind to
> > > the cruelty, humiliation and outcasting that society
> > > throws on not just the mentally ill, but anyone who
> > > does not fit in to their clique. That's why a lot of
> > > mentally ill people who have no support end up on
> > > the streets, in prostitution, abuse, or somehow taken advantage
> > > of. For seriously ill people who need help, the solution is to
> > > improve
> > > hospitals, not to kick people out on the street.
>
> > > "Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose.."
>
> > > -
> > > Janice Joplin
>
> > You forgot to mention, "or in jail"--one of the more popular dumping
> > grounds for deinstitutionalized mentally ill.
>
> True, in the States it's scandalous -- and what a horrible place
> for the mentally ill. The shortage of beds and resources does
> not allow for the long-term stay that used to be the case pre-50s
> anyway. That goes for all hospitals now--- they would rather you
> were taken care of outside somehow.
>
> Erin

Is the same true in Canada?
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Next: "We know that hospitals are dangerous places if you don't needto be there," Dr. Eliot Fisher, who also led the study, said.