Warrior diet (is it possible?)
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From: Davide on 17 May 2006 15:25 Hi I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth can you follow this diet ?! I mean, the diet is well known among dieters who want to lose fat or are overweight and obese This is easy to understand as they need to undereat anyway being in a caloric deficiency so the night meal doesn't have to be that big and they must still burn their own fat as fuel But I wonder as for a maintenance or growth diet how is it possible to use a Warrior diet! The author himself claims that it is suited for athletes but what he fails to mention is the most logical aspect, the fact that ruins a beautiful theory and the reason why humans instinctively eat more times a day: the size of our stomach The author consider the amount of food you can eat in a sitting limited by how much food you have eaten before, so if you have undereat in the morning you can overeat in the evening, but actually the limiting factor is the small size of your stomach. If an athletes needs 3000 calories and suddenly he or she should have to consume all those calories in a sitting it doesn't matter how much he or she underate during the day because the stomach is not big enough to contain all the foods necessary to provide so many calories Let alone enough protein! Warrior diet menus I have seen call for 1 pound of meat in your only meal of the day but how can you get enough proteins from a pound of meat? And mind you that consuming protein powder during the day would be cheating big time on everything the diet is about and is supposed to work why Why people not suffering from famine or starvation on non-western countries never become obese? Because it's impossible to get so many calories from so little caloric dense foods Junk food and processed food are needed because they provide three times as many calories in the same bulk of food. For example a McDonald meal can easily provide 1500 calories but this is because the refined starches, oils and so on It's really impossible to overeat on natural foods that's why there are no obese people where there are no processed foods of any kind If you then begin the meal with fiber rich salad as the diet suggests there will be even less room for enough food Bottom line is that as long as you've weight to lose this will work but what after that? The typical warrior menus I have seen provide no more than 1000 calories and if someone keep eating 1000 calories daily even if he or she has no more fat to lose he or she will soon starve and become emaciated The reason I'm asking this question is that I've tried the diet for two weeks and I've lost a lot of lean body mass because I underate without problems during the day but I underate a night too because I couldn't consume more than what I used to consume in a normal meal because my stomach couldn't hold more food and if I insisted on eating I would get painful signal it was full and would probably vomit everything So since I couldn't eat more food than my stomach could handle I was literally starving myself with one big meal a day and the effects were not pleasant What's your opinion? How can you consume enough food and calories and protein while consuming just one meal a day even if the size of your stomach is not suited to hold more than 1000 calories of bulky foods (meaning: meat, fish, eggs, grains, veggies, legumes ... ) ? Thanks Davide
From: Larry Hodges on 17 May 2006 16:16 "Davide" <davideb_music(a)yahoo.it> wrote in message news:1147893956.933433.303460(a)y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Hi > I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while also > being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth can you > follow this diet ?! > I mean, the diet is well known among dieters who want to lose fat or > are overweight and obese > This is easy to understand as they need to undereat anyway being in a > caloric deficiency so the night meal doesn't have to be that big and > they must still burn their own fat as fuel > > But I wonder as for a maintenance or growth diet how is it possible to > use a Warrior diet! > The author himself claims that it is suited for athletes but what he > fails to mention is the most logical aspect, the fact that ruins a > beautiful theory and the reason why humans instinctively eat more times > a day: the size of our stomach > > The author consider the amount of food you can eat in a sitting limited > by how much food you have eaten before, so if you have undereat in the > morning you can overeat in the evening, but actually the limiting > factor is the small size of your stomach. > > If an athletes needs 3000 calories and suddenly he or she should have > to consume all those calories in a sitting it doesn't matter how much > he or she underate during the day because the stomach is not big enough > to contain all the foods necessary to provide so many calories > > Let alone enough protein! > > Warrior diet menus I have seen call for 1 pound of meat in your only > meal of the day but how can you get enough proteins from a pound of > meat? > And mind you that consuming protein powder during the day would be > cheating big time on everything the diet is about and is supposed to > work why > > Why people not suffering from famine or starvation on non-western > countries never become obese? > > Because it's impossible to get so many calories from so little caloric > dense foods > Junk food and processed food are needed because they provide three > times as many calories in the same bulk of food. For example a McDonald > meal can easily provide 1500 calories but this is because the refined > starches, oils and so on > > It's really impossible to overeat on natural foods that's why there are > no obese people > where there are no processed foods of any kind > If you then begin the meal with fiber rich salad as the diet suggests > there will be even less room for enough food > > Bottom line is that as long as you've weight to lose this will work but > what after that? > The typical warrior menus I have seen provide no more than 1000 > calories and if someone keep eating 1000 calories daily even if he or > she has no more fat to lose he or she will soon starve and become > emaciated > > The reason I'm asking this question is that I've tried the diet for two > weeks and I've lost a lot of lean body mass because I underate without > problems during the day but I underate a night too because I couldn't > consume more than what I used to consume in a normal meal because my > stomach couldn't hold more food and if I insisted on eating I would get > painful signal it was full and would probably vomit everything > So since I couldn't eat more food than my stomach could handle I was > literally starving myself with one big meal a day and the effects were > not pleasant > > What's your opinion? > How can you consume enough food and calories and protein while > consuming just one meal a day even if the size of your stomach is not > suited to hold more than 1000 calories of bulky foods (meaning: meat, > fish, eggs, grains, veggies, legumes ... ) ? > > Thanks > Davide Cue Steve's religious soap box sermon. And before you take his advice, ask him how much he weighs. What do I think? The word "stupid" comes to mind. Listen, the guys who follow this do it as almost a cultish thing. Any science based nutrition advice will tell you it's stupid as well. -Larry
From: Davide on 17 May 2006 17:40 DZ ha scritto: > Davide <davideb_music(a)yahoo.it> wrote: > > I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while > > also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth > > can you follow this diet ?! > ... > > If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing athletes, > who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may be > valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you > won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these concerns > are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the amount > of protein. > > I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night - that's > what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious though, > so I wouldn't adopt it. Okay, I agree that the "esoteric" side should be separated from the health and diet so let's just call it eating at night instead of the day. But I wonder are you trying to lose, mantain or gain weight? I can understand how this diet works for weight loss since you undereat at night but what about maintenance? Someone mentioned to me that the author of the diet looks gaunt and wasted like someone who is starving and while I don't care for anecdotal rumors like that it may mean something Let's say you're trying to maintain your weight, that you've reached your perfect weight and you have no more fat to lose. Chances are you might need at least 2000 calories daily even more if you're tall and train everyday Let's say 2500 calories day. You eat vegetables and drink veggie juices on the morning and when it's night you must consume 2500 calories in a sitting, now I may believe that your hunger will allow you to eat that much but your stomach won't If we calculate how much food is needed to get 2500 calories in term of mere bulk it's a lot more than what my or your stomach can hold. That's why I wonder how don't starve while eating just one big meal at night Thanks Davide
From: Davide on 18 May 2006 05:43 DZ ha scritto: > Davide <davideb_music(a)yahoo.it> wrote: > > DZ ha scritto: > >> Davide <davideb_music(a)yahoo.it> wrote: > >> > I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while > >> > also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth > >> > can you follow this diet ?! > >> > >> If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing athletes, > >> who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may be > >> valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you > >> won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these concerns > >> are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the amount [> >> of protein. > >> > >> I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night - that's > >> what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious though, > >> so I wouldn't adopt it. > > > > Okay, I agree that the "esoteric" side should be separated from the > > health and diet so let's just call it eating at night instead of the > > day. But I wonder are you trying to lose, mantain or gain weight? > > My weight is stable, but higher than what it would be if I weren't > training. > > > I can understand how this diet works for weight loss since you > > undereat at night but what about maintenance? Someone mentioned to > > me that the author of the diet looks gaunt and wasted like someone > > who is starving > > You can see that I didn't end up looking gaunt and wasted from the > clip in my previous post. So, why do you think the author got wasted and gaunt Does it mean that the diet may work for smaller people that requires less calories or that it can't be continued indefinitely? What about then cycling? Like 1 week of warrior diet out of 4 weeks, the other three just normal more meals a day? Or two weeks out of 4 Would that provide the beneficials of alternate fasting seen on longevity studies while also taking care of the problem of not getting enough calorie all in all? > > I may believe that your hunger will allow you to eat that much but > > your stomach won't > > By the time stomach tells me to stop, I'm past being hungry. That's > all there is to it. Exactly, and I'm sure that when you're past hungry you still haven't consumed enough calories or the calories that you need and would have consumed if you had instead consumed more meals >There is one way to find if it works for you - try > and see if you lose too much weight or become too hungry during the > day. There are adaptations that take place during intermittent fasting > including more efficient utilization of protein. > > One thing I forgot to say - most optimal is to eat right after the > training. The problem is that I train on the morning, I don't think training at 9 pm is that good or would allow you to train at your max potential > You can also try to have something easily digestible, perhaps a > protein shake right before the training if you worry about not being > able to squeeze in those extra calories (just how much extra calories > per training session do you intend to spend?). Then eat the rest of > the food when you come back home from the gym. So, this is how my Warrior days were: Didn't eat nothing except vegetable juices and miso soup and vegetable broth till 8 pm without hunger. At 8 pm I began my big meal with a small salad, then three eggs and half a big avocado This was a typical meal and nowhere as big as it would have theoretically supposed to be 90 minutes later I would eat 150 grams of whole pasta with half pack of cottage cheese That's it: sunk ! I couldn't eat anything more: 194 calories, 16 grams protein 150 calories, 3 grams of protein 103 calories, 12 grams of protein 400 calories, 20 grams of protein 200 calories - oils This is indeed 1000 calories and 51 grams of proteins and it's starving big time for everyone let alone someone who exercises. Even for women on diet that shouldn't IMO go below 20% of their BMR when dieting would consume at least 1200 calories when they're trying to lose a lot of weight This suits the menus I've seen: even people who say they eat a lot on the warrior diet rarely exceed 1000 calories in their two night meals unless they introduce caloric dense junk food in the diet and it's no wonder they're losing weight. If you cook all those 1000 calories and put them on the table you will see is an awful lot of food and you may wonder how all that food will ever suits the fist size of your small stomach. So those 1000 calories where even more than my stomach could normally handle, just figure what is they were more than that What do you eat usually? Can you tell me exactly each food and how much you eat and within how many meals and what time of the day? > As far as the increased protein needs, I'll post it again: > > Resistance training > ---------------------------- > "In highly trained powerlifters and bodybuilders, in whom muscle mass > is high but stable, it is unlikely that their dietary protein > requirements are elevated much more than those of a sedentary person"; > and "All things considered, it is abundantly clear that any protein > requirement set for strength-training athletes is of little relevance" > (http://tinyurl.com/3jurp ; PMID: 15212752) > > Endurance training > --------------------------- > "It appears that low- and moderate-intensity endurance exercise does > not affect dietary protein requirements... For the well- trained > endurance athlete training 4 to 5 d/wk for longer than 60 min, there > appears to be a very modest increase in dietary protein requirements" > (http://tinyurl.com/3qafz ; PMID: 15212749) "Although contrary to traditional belief, recent scientific information collected on physically active individuals tends to indicate that regular exercise increases daily protein requirements; however, the precise details remain to be worked out. Based on laboratory measures, daily protein requirements are increased by perhaps as much as 100% vs. recommendations for sedentary individuals (1.6-1.8 vs. 0.8 g/kg). Yet even these intakes are much less than those reported by most athletes. This may mean that actual requirements are below what is needed to optimize athletic performance, and so the debate continues. Numerous interacting factors including energy intake, carbohydrate availability, exercise intensity, duration and type, dietary protein quality, training history, gender, age, timing of nutrient intake and the like make this topic extremely complex" [PMID: 11023001] "This paper reviews the factors (exercise intensity, carbohydrate availability, exercise type, energy balance, gender, exercise training, age, and timing of nutrient intake or subsequent exercise sessions) thought to influence protein need. Although there remains some debate, recent evidence suggests that dietary protein need increases with rigorous physical exercise. Those involved in strength training might need to consume as much as 1.6 to 1.7 g protein x kg(-1) x day(-1) (approximately twice the current RDA) while those undergoing endurance training might need about 1.2 to 1.6 g x kg(-1) x day(-1) (approximately 1.5 times the current RDA). Future longitudinal studies are needed to confirm these recommendations and asses whether these protein intakes can enhance exercise performance. Despite the frequently expressed concern about adverse effects of high protein intake, there is no evidence that protein intakes in the range suggested will have adverse effects in healthy individuals." [PMID: 9841962] "In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements for young healthy males." [PMID: 1474076] I'm not saying there is a need for consuming huge amount of protein They're right with that: there's no need for more protein than the RDA suggests for building the extra muscle mass, muscle is mostly water and the protein required to build the maximum amount of muscle that can be put on in a week is already covered by the RDA But when you look at the overall nitrogen balance though you see that there are conditions which raise the amount of protein needed to remain a nitrogen balance The reason is that other things affect the nitrogen balance and the need for more protein, for example exercises increases protein turnover and the body keep using proteins as a substrate during exercise no fatter how much fat you have to burn instead or how much glycogen and glucose you could provide to the body. For example when dieting the amount of protein needed to maintain nitrogen balance goes up and if you're a beginner it goes up a lot If face both the papers you cited and the ones I cited agree that there's slightly increased need for protein. If you consider that there are bodybuilders consuming 300 grams of protein in a sitting you can see we both agree on this. A good amount to be sure to remain in nitrogen balance is IMO 1g/pound or else 0.80/pound. Davide
From: WillBrink on 18 May 2006 09:24
In article <14948(a)456017527.2470131498.9661.6896.25842>, DZ <6770(a)2518515264.922427059.16447.12592.18264> wrote: > Larry Hodges <2larry2(a)2maximizesoftware2.com> wrote: > > Cue Steve's religious soap box sermon. And before you take his > > advice, ask him how much he weighs. > > > > What do I think? The word "stupid" comes to mind. Listen, the guys > > who follow this do it as almost a cultish thing. Any science based > > nutrition advice will tell you it's stupid as well. > > Steve may speak for himself. My weight on such diet have been 170 to > 180 lb with body fat below 7%. There is solid scientific support for > intermittent fasting being health promoting. I have not read such research. Would like to read some however. Can you direct me to the studies you feel support fasting? I'm not convinced fasting is helpful or needed. -- Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/ |