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From: Bob Kaplow on 15 Oct 2005 11:11
In article <1129345185.431186.203960(a)g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, stigmaed(a)bellsouth.net writes:
> I, a US born citizen, son of two US born citizens, who honestly
> answered NO to EVERY OTHER QUESTION on the form to every negative
> question such as anything to do with foreign countries, military
> record, bad employment, police, illegal drugs, alcohol, financial,
> public records, ect. could not get interim security clearance. And the
> only negative thing on my record is seeing a mental health
> professional.

Sounds like your prospective employer violated the ADA and various other
regulations.

It POs me to no end that our government can make laws, persecute those that
don't comply with them, then ingnore them in their own affairs.

Talk to an employment lawyer.

--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org

Homeland Security Administration: The Gestapo of the 21st Century
From: John Palmer on 15 Oct 2005 12:24
On 14 Oct 2005 19:59:45 -0700, stigmaed(a)bellsouth.net wrote:

>I have ruined my life because I voluntarily saw a frinking
>psychiatrist!
>
>OK, its not that bad, but on a government form to get security
>clearance, this questions was asked... "In the last 7 years, have you
>consulted with a mental health professional (psychiatrist,
>psychologist, counselor, etc.) or have you consulted with another
>health care provider about a mental health related condition?"
>
>I couldn't lie. In the wake of buying a house, turning 30, surviving
>2001, I became a little depressed. I had trouble sleeping. My ADD
>became worse. I took advantage of my employment benefits and saw a
>pdoc. And a therapist.
(snip some)
>
>So a ex-coworker/friend got me this sweet job with a 30% pay increase.
>I said yeah. 1 problem, I need security clearance from the US
>government. No problem for someone born in this country with a clean
>record.
>
>hehe, section 21 asks the question "have you consulted with a mental
>health professional ". I say yes, provide my doctors' names, and hope
>for the best.
>
>WRONG.
(snip some)
>Biggest mistake of my life, telling anyone, especially a professional,
>that I was depressed.

If that was truly the biggest mistake of your life, may I suggest
you've had a pretty nice life so far?

I'm not saying I don't sympathize; I do. The government has forgotten
that the cost of increased security is missed opportunity. It sucks
that you don't have the job. However, it seems that the problem is not
having seen a professional, but that the rules for interim clearance
are, to be kind, incredibly stupid.

>
>The stigma of mental illness, alive and well.
>
>Where's the warning label on prozac, zoloft, strattera that says what
>the negative professional and economic impact of taking the mediactions
>are?

The warning label should be on those who make judgements, not on the
meds.

--
Everything I needed to know in life I learned in Kindergarten. Like:
Beauty has a beginning, and an ending, but always lives beyond its span,
in the hearts of many.
From: MothWrangler on 15 Oct 2005 16:37
stigmaed(a)bellsouth.net wrote:
> I have ruined my life because I voluntarily saw a frinking
> psychiatrist!
>
> OK, its not that bad, but on a government form to get security
> clearance, this questions was asked... "In the last 7 years, have you
> consulted with a mental health professional (psychiatrist,
> psychologist, counselor, etc.) or have you consulted with another
> health care provider about a mental health related condition?"
>
> I couldn't lie. In the wake of buying a house, turning 30, surviving
> 2001, I became a little depressed. I had trouble sleeping. My ADD
> became worse. I took advantage of my employment benefits and saw a
> pdoc. And a therapist.
>
> So I was depressed, I got over it. I was never crazy, suicidal,
> hospitalized, in fact, no one really knew. I took wellbutrin,
> trazodone, zolfot, and strattera before deciding to suck it up and save
> the money. My last visit to the doc was over a year ago.
>
> So a ex-coworker/friend got me this sweet job with a 30% pay increase.
> I said yeah. 1 problem, I need security clearance from the US
> government. No problem for someone born in this country with a clean
> record.
>
> hehe, section 21 asks the question "have you consulted with a mental
> health professional ". I say yes, provide my doctors' names, and hope
> for the best.
>
> WRONG.
>
> I, a US born citizen, son of two US born citizens, who honestly
> answered NO to EVERY OTHER QUESTION on the form to every negative
> question such as anything to do with foreign countries, military
> record, bad employment, police, illegal drugs, alcohol, financial,
> public records, ect. could not get interim security clearance. And the
> only negative thing on my record is seeing a mental health
> professional.
>
> Biggest mistake of my life, telling anyone, especially a professional,
> that I was depressed.
>
> The stigma of mental illness, alive and well.
>
> Where's the warning label on prozac, zoloft, strattera that says what
> the negative professional and economic impact of taking the mediactions
> are?
>
> I'll get another job, I'll be fine, but this can ruin someon else's
> life. Email me if you want to talk.
>

So what are you suggesting? That individuals with mental health issues
avoid seeking medical help and treatment just on the chance that they
might in the next seven years want to get an interim security clearance?

It seems to me that you're blaming the medications for "negative
professional and economic impact" when it probably was your mental
health issues that are of primary concern WRT the security clearance.

Consider what you're suggesting would have been the better route to
take: not seeing a doctor, not taking the medications. And, although
there's no way of knowing what the current state of your mental health
might be if you had had sought treatment, your depression might have
gotten worse, your ADHD might have continued to cause you problems, your
sleeping problems might have continued. And if those issues were not
under control when you applied for the interim clearance, you wouldn't
have gotten the clearance anyway. You just don't know.


Nancy
Unique, like everyone else
From: J. Clarke on 16 Oct 2005 19:19
Bob Kaplow wrote:

> In article <1129345185.431186.203960(a)g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> stigmaed(a)bellsouth.net writes:
>> I, a US born citizen, son of two US born citizens, who honestly
>> answered NO to EVERY OTHER QUESTION on the form to every negative
>> question such as anything to do with foreign countries, military
>> record, bad employment, police, illegal drugs, alcohol, financial,
>> public records, ect. could not get interim security clearance. And the
>> only negative thing on my record is seeing a mental health
>> professional.
>
> Sounds like your prospective employer violated the ADA and various other
> regulations.
>
> It POs me to no end that our government can make laws, persecute those
> that don't comply with them, then ingnore them in their own affairs.
>
> Talk to an employment lawyer.

Security clearances are not issued by employers, the are issued by the
Federal government, so I don't see how the government denying one would
constitute a violation of the ADA by the employer.

The issue with a security clearance is, very simply, can we trust this
person not to blab. And being very honest about it, as a person with ADHD,
I can see where ADHD could be a downcheck--one well known characteristic of
ADHD is that we blurt things out--engage mouth before brain. This does not
bode well for one's ability to keep secrets, especially if the secrets are
central to one's work and thus often in the forefront of one's thoughts.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
From: george of the jungle on 15 Oct 2005 23:26
On 15 Oct 2005 05:44:18 -0700, "stigmaed(a)bellsouth.net"
<stigmaed(a)bellsouth.net> wrote:

>I talked to a lawyer who specializes in security clearances. He said
>that saying yes to that quesion was an automatic rejection of the
>interim clearance process.
>
>Everyone who knows me is simply shocked that I could not get clearance.
> I don't even have traffic ticket I am so clean.
>
>So yeah, EVENTUALLY I can get clearance, if the company will sponsor my
>security application through the wait period of 9-18 months. The
>complete investigation would clear me and I would get it then. The
>problem is, I was supposed to start this Monday, not next year. And
>the job will not wait.
>
>But if they don't continue the process, and another company wants to
>hire me for a security related position, this process starts over. I
>could wait 6 years until this ages off the report, but thats a hell of
>a penalty to pay.

You got Catch-22'd. I don't think the question about seeing a
psychiatrist is a good security screening tool. The craziest people
are the ones who don't want any help.

People spill the beans when they get drunk, which is a security risk.
Why don't they ask "Have you ever been drunk?". That would be a very
effective way of reducing the number of candidates for a job.

Sorry you got screwed.

_g
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