Thyroid and Psychoses
in [Thyroid]
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From: Rod on 14 Aug 2008 04:11 "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana (1863-1952), U.S. philosopher, poet. I'd heard something of an article to do with Myxedema and Madness. In common with many others, I guess that I thought it would be as irrelevant as so many old papers are - simply absorbed into the zeitgeist of thyroid, overtaken by events, of historical interest only. The other day, Jane Asher was on UK television. (Yes - she of cakes, Paul Macartney and so on fame.) And I looked her up for some reason - and noted her father was Richard Asher - who was a highly respected medic. And he was interested in thyroid... Thus started my search for his paper, which I found here: "Myxoedematous Madness" by Richard Asher <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=2051123> (Do download the full PDF.) *** I WAS WRONG *** The paper is still of profound interest and its lessons clearly have not been learned by todays' medical profession. If I could force every medic to read this before qualifying, well, I would. (To be fair, psychiatrists might well read it. The rest need to catch up.) Even the Wiki article about Richard Asher is worth reading: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Asher> Just one question to add. Was one grain of thyroid (BP, I imagine) in the 1940s the same strength as Armour Thyroid? The amounts they seem to give out certainly appear to be rather large by current standards. -- Rod Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious onset. Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. <www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
From: kgrhoads on 14 Aug 2008 09:50 Rod wrote: > "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." > > George Santayana (1863-1952), U.S. philosopher, poet. > > > .................... > > Just one question to add. Was one grain of thyroid (BP, I imagine) in > the 1940s the same strength as Armour Thyroid? The amounts they seem to > give out certainly appear to be rather large by current standards. > > -- > Rod > > Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious > onset. > Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. > <www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org> One grain is a bit over 60 mg: (actually about 64.x where x is large enough that you should round up): FROM: http://www.peteducation.com/category_summary.cfm?cls=0&Cat=1305 Weight and Apothecaries' Equivalents 1 milligram (mg) 1/65 grain (1/60) 1 gram (g) 15.43 grains (15) 1 kilogram (kg) 2.20 pounds (avoirdupois) 1 pound (avoirdupois) 453.6 grams 1 grain (gr) 0.065 gram (60 mg) 1 ounce (1/16 pound) 28.4 grams Interestingly enough, Westhroid uses real grains, whilst Armour uses SI pseudo-grains (60mg). So a "2 gr" armour is 120 mg, but a 2 gr. Westhroid is 129.x mg (closer to 130 than 129). Bottom line -- one grain in the 1940s was one grain and nowadays it is 60 mg, so it is about 7.7% weaker -- but otherwise "the same". <rant> Yes, they really did dose people with that much back then. They only started giving lower doses in the mid 1970s, circa 1975-on, when the "set dose by TSH" UNPROVEN theory became the "gold standard" of hypo- treatment. Before that people, on average, got 2x to 3x what is common prescribed today. (OH -- and note that fibromyalgia was never a big problem until the last two or three decades -- also the asthma epidemic started being noticed about that long ago -- and they all happenned to start about the same time -- perhaps some of the recent upswing in fibromyalgia and asthma is really UNDER-dosed thyroid problems -- but no one will test it, because they think they know the answer! "scientific medicine" BAH HUMBUG) </rant> Anyway, back when MDs knew they did NOT know it all, we had much better medicine being done. Nowadays there is this delusion of knowing that is fostered by drug companies and medical schools and MDs come out of school thinking that all they were taught is true. They don't know that much of it is unproven, even untested assumptions. The resulting delusion of knowledge leads to bad decision making. I think we should be campaigning for a return to telling people in med school just how much we DON'T know. MHOO - YMMV
From: district on 14 Aug 2008 09:51 Rod Thanks for posting this. Fascinating. I've always been prone to depression and anxiety. But over the past 2 years since I've been sick, my moods have been awful. I mean, I had days where I was convinced I was going crazy, suicidal thoughts, you name it. I even had sort of a nervous breakdown and had to take 2 weeks off of work. I'm much better now that I'm on Armour - and in fact, feeling better only highlights how bad I felt. I always tell my therapist that if we could go back in time to the mental wards of 100 years ago, we'd probably find that a good portion of those folks had thyroid disease. -Jen On Aug 14, 4:11 am, Rod <polygo...(a)ntlworld.com> wrote: > "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." > > George Santayana (1863-1952), U.S. philosopher, poet. > > I'd heard something of an article to do with Myxedema and Madness. In > common with many others, I guess that I thought it would be as > irrelevant as so many old papers are - simply absorbed into the > zeitgeist of thyroid, overtaken by events, of historical interest only. > > The other day, Jane Asher was on UK television. (Yes - she of cakes, > Paul Macartney and so on fame.) And I looked her up for some reason - > and noted her father was Richard Asher - who was a highly respected > medic. And he was interested in thyroid... > > Thus started my search for his paper, which I found here: > > "Myxoedematous Madness" by Richard Asher > > <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=2051123> > > (Do download the full PDF.) > > *** I WAS WRONG *** > > The paper is still of profound interest and its lessons clearly have not > been learned by todays' medical profession. If I could force every medic > to read this before qualifying, well, I would. (To be fair, > psychiatrists might well read it. The rest need to catch up.) > > Even the Wiki article about Richard Asher is worth reading: > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Asher> > > Just one question to add. Was one grain of thyroid (BP, I imagine) in > the 1940s the same strength as Armour Thyroid? The amounts they seem to > give out certainly appear to be rather large by current standards. > > -- > Rod > > Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious > onset. > Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed. > <www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
From: kgrhoads on 14 Aug 2008 09:58 More exactly, for those who want more than 2 decimals: 1 grain = 64.79891 milligrams Difference when using 60 mg as a pseudo-grain: 7.405849882... % lower So "one grain" of armour now is 7.4% less weight that the 1940s one grain. As for potency ... back then they could only titrate on total iodine, now T3 and T4 are controlled (9mcg T3, 38 mcg T4 per "one grain") Basically, assume they are roughly the same. Someone who was getting 2 gr armour -- three times a day -- for 6 grains total, would likely only be given 1, 1.5 or (if lucky) 2 grains today. So, are the doctors today, using the UNtested TSH theory or are the 1940s doctors, using symptoms and cholesterol tests, and reflex tests, and thinking -- WHICH ONES ARE RIGHT? I don't know -- but I would put more faith in a 1940s MD than a 1990s MD personally. From where I stand it seems like in the lst 50 to 60 years MDs mostly got arrogant. And, I can tell you from personal experience, arrogant = stupid. Sincerely Kevin
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