From: Peter Bowditch on
"JOHN" <john(a)btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname(a)ratbags.com> wrote in message
>news:eigvr21puu1c7m5gof8t4m0jfao0nn5r0k(a)4ax.com...
>
>>>
>>
>> No, John - Gallup said that MMR was the only possible cause. If MMR is
>> the only possible cause, then there is no other possible cause. that's
>> what the word "only" means.
>> --
>
>
>does he speak for me, didn't know that, and I don't believe you anyway, show
>us his words
>

The original claim by Gallup was made in a letter to a newspaper in or
around March, 2005. I will try to find out where I read it, but my
best guess is that it would have been on some anti-vaccination liar
mailing list.

In the meantime, here is Ray Gallup blaming MMR and only MMR for his
son's autism:

Our son, Eric was born normal on January 17, 1985 and regressed into
Autism after receiving the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine on
April 28, 1986. In 1995, we found out that that Eric tested positive
for myelin basic protein antibodies, elevated measles antibody titers
and T-cell abnormalities. Vijendra Singh, PhD of Utah State University
and Jim Oleske, MD of UMDNJ, Newark, NJ found these results in immune
panel blood tests done on Eric. In 1998, Joel Rosh, MD found that Eric
had colitis and in 2002, Arthur Krigsman, MD found the same along with
a quarter-size painful stomach tissue in Eric's esophagus. In looking
back at our videotapes of Eric we saw Eric progressing and meeting the
developmental milestones until he got the MMR shot and then we lost
him to regressive autism.

In case you want to read it in context, it's at
http://www.whale.to/a/eric.html

I realise that this might not be a credible web site and you might be
unfamiliar with it, but at least I tried.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
From: JOHN on

"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname(a)ratbags.com> wrote in message
news:itm3s2peachs0gldna78spf8faqvle7p0s(a)4ax.com...

>
> In the meantime, here is Ray Gallup blaming MMR and only MMR for his
> son's autism:
>
> Our son, Eric was born normal on January 17, 1985 and regressed into
> Autism after receiving the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine on
> April 28, 1986. In 1995, we found out that that Eric tested positive
> for myelin basic protein antibodies, elevated measles antibody titers
> and T-cell abnormalities. Vijendra Singh, PhD of Utah State University
> and Jim Oleske, MD of UMDNJ, Newark, NJ found these results in immune
> panel blood tests done on Eric. In 1998, Joel Rosh, MD found that Eric
> had colitis and in 2002, Arthur Krigsman, MD found the same along with
> a quarter-size painful stomach tissue in Eric's esophagus. In looking
> back at our videotapes of Eric we saw Eric progressing and meeting the
> developmental milestones until he got the MMR shot and then we lost
> him to regressive autism.
>
> In case you want to read it in context, it's at
> http://www.whale.to/a/eric.html
>
> I realise that this might not be a credible web site and you might be
> unfamiliar with it, but at least I tried.
> --

So what? MMR can cause autism, that doesn't mean mercury doesn't

various different poisons cause polio, meningits etc

but you don't get poisons which is why you promote them


From: mainframetech on
On Feb 1, 2:40 am, JohnDoe <d...(a)spam.me> wrote:
> mainframetech wrote:
>
> > John Doe,
> > Yes, very definitely stuff there intended for children. DTaP, TT,
> > Td and Hepatitus B which the CDC says "Scientific data show that
> > hepatitis B vaccines are very safe for infants, children, and adults."
>
> What David Wright said: "Children are almost never given TT or Td. The
> amount of thimerosal in even the heaviest pediatric HepB dose is less
> than you'd get from a tuna sandwich."
>
> > If your question was intended to determine who is at risk,
> > children are the guinea pigs for many of these vaccines. Remember,
> > many children are so young when they get the vaccinations, they don't
> > know to complain of any symptoms, and it's very difficult to nail down
> > the cause of problems years later.
>
> But you are sure it's the Thimerosal anyway, aren't you?
>
> > A special on CNN a few weeks ago
> > mentioned that they took the Thimerosal out of many individual doses
> > of vaccines after there was an international flap, but had left it in
> > some( which turned out to be the children's large batches of
> > vaccine).
>
> The "international flap" was that anti-vac liars got people worried
> about something totally safe, so it's been removed just to ease people's
> minds. Of course, the anti-vac liars don't care about the Thimerosal,
> they want vaccines gone completely, so now they're ranting about the
> aluminum in the vaccines. Like one of them said: "We'll take down the
> vaccines one ingredient at a time". You see, they're liars, and you are
> either a liar too or you've been taken in by their lies. Time to stop
> lying or to get educated. Your choice.
>
> > Now, if there's some doubt about a chemical in a vaccine, why
> > remove it from the adult doses, and not the children? "Who benefits?"
>
> Dr. Andrew Wakefield perhaps? Who knows, maybe he has another patent up
> his sleeve.
>
>
>
> > is the question to ask, and then maybe "who supported the decision and
> > the deciders".
>
> > Chris- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry about the doublepost, but the I'm glad you got the idea.

>Children are almost never given TT or Td. The amount of thimerosal in
>even the heaviest pediatric HepB dose is less than you'd get from a
>tuna sandwich.

Not a good example, I think. Even the FDA has put out warnings
about pregnant women and babies avoiding too much tuna due to
mercury. Which probably means everyone, but they didn't want to lose
too much money for the industry. If even one child is allowed to have
Thimerosal put into them, there is a danger to that child. Telling me
that "Children are almost never given TT or Td" means that some
children are given the stuff.

>The multidose vials. Not in use in the US in any significant way.
>The thimerosal is gone from the US pediatric vaccines. Yet autism
>rates do not plummet. That should tell you something.

Doesn't tell me anything because the FDA still publishes the
previously mentioned list as "Thimerosal Content in Currently
Manufactured U.S. Licensed Vaccines". "U.S. licensed" sounds to me
like if a vendor wanted to put it out, he could legally do it. Also,
the list is there with children specified as patients for many of the
vaccines on it. If they stopped it being used by children, I'm sure
they'd want to brag about it.

>The "international flap" was that anti-vac liars got people worried
>about something totally safe, so it's been removed just to ease people's
>minds. Of course, the anti-vac liars don't care about the Thimerosal,
>they want vaccines gone completely, so now they're ranting about the
>aluminum in the vaccines. Like one of them said: "We'll take down the
>vaccines one ingredient at a time". You see, they're liars, and you are
>either a liar too or you've been taken in by their lies. Time to stop
>lying or to get educated. Your choice.

Ah well. I have a feeling that "anti-vac liars" is a buzzword that
you'd like everyone to use. Doesn't make sense though, since many are
really anti-Thimerosal, and not against vaccination. Running around
calling "liar, liar" doesn't help anyone get your point either. If
you are caring of children, why not have a major drug company spend a
few bucks and find a safe alternative to Thimerosal? They can
certainly afford it, and it would solve the whole problem. Odd about
that. They're able to hire all sorts of folks to do their bidding,
but not 2 cents to solve the Thimerosal problem. Whether it's real or
perception, it must hurt the bottom line. Ahh! THAT'S why they're
trying to get congress to force folks to take certain vaccines!! They
won't need any advertising or care at all about Thimerosal if everyone
is forced by law to take the drug! And of course, we'll have to have
laws saying that the big drug companies can't be sued for killing
thousands of people with a bad vaccine, bcause they were just doing
the U.S. a service and didn't mean it. Yep, it all comes clear now.
Now, we need to see who will help and support them in doing all that
for a few bucks, while babies are dying all around us.

Weell, perhaps that's a bit strong, but when you leave folks to
their own devices with a little power, there's no telling what they'll
do to others that are in their way. Or how they'll justify it.

Chris





From: Peter Bowditch on
"JOHN" <john(a)btinternet.com> wrote:

>
>"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname(a)ratbags.com> wrote in message
>news:itm3s2peachs0gldna78spf8faqvle7p0s(a)4ax.com...
>
>>
>> In the meantime, here is Ray Gallup blaming MMR and only MMR for his
>> son's autism:
>>
>> Our son, Eric was born normal on January 17, 1985 and regressed into
>> Autism after receiving the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine on
>> April 28, 1986. In 1995, we found out that that Eric tested positive
>> for myelin basic protein antibodies, elevated measles antibody titers
>> and T-cell abnormalities. Vijendra Singh, PhD of Utah State University
>> and Jim Oleske, MD of UMDNJ, Newark, NJ found these results in immune
>> panel blood tests done on Eric. In 1998, Joel Rosh, MD found that Eric
>> had colitis and in 2002, Arthur Krigsman, MD found the same along with
>> a quarter-size painful stomach tissue in Eric's esophagus. In looking
>> back at our videotapes of Eric we saw Eric progressing and meeting the
>> developmental milestones until he got the MMR shot and then we lost
>> him to regressive autism.
>>
>> In case you want to read it in context, it's at
>> http://www.whale.to/a/eric.html
>>
>> I realise that this might not be a credible web site and you might be
>> unfamiliar with it, but at least I tried.
>> --
>
>So what? MMR can cause autism, that doesn't mean mercury doesn't
>
>various different poisons cause polio, meningits etc
>
>but you don't get poisons which is why you promote them
>

But John, you wanted to know where you could see Ray Gallup blaming
MMR and only MMR for HIS SON'S autism. I showed you somewhere where he
is quoted as saying this. If whale.to isn't a reliable reference
source, perhaps you should stop citing it so often yourself.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
From: Mark Probert on
mainframetech wrote:
>
>> Nearly all childhood vaccines are available without Thimerosal.
>
> Mark,
> Quite an admission if the converse is true, that nearly all
> childhood vaccines are available WITH Thimerosal.

Like I said, nearly all are available without it. The following are
vaccinations which are only available without Thimerosal:

IPV,
Chicken Pox
Pneumonia
Hib
Hib/HepB combination

and

DTaP Free or trace amounts
DTaP-HepB-IPV Trace amounts
HepB Free or trace amounts
Influenza Free or trace amounts
Influenze, live Free

Therefore, your statement, "that nearly all childhood vaccines are
available WITH Thimerosal" is incorrect.

When does the
> parent at the clinic or outpatient offices get to choose the right
> version for themselves, or even hear that interesting piece of news?

Every parent should be given a vaccine information sheet and a consent
form.

>> Simple. The FDA was concerned that the lying anti-vaccination
>> scaremongers would cause a downturn in the uptake of vaccines, and thus
>> cause widespread breakouts.
>
> This is very strong language from someone that is a caring
> person.

You betcha. I care about keeping children alive. If they are liars, then
do not blame me. I call them as I see them.

I assume that you are caring because I see you have decided
> to fight hard to protect everyone with the cures and treatments of the
> mainstream medical community as dictated by the drug companies and set
> out by the FDA.

No, that is incorrect. The drug companies do not dictate as you claim.

BTW, that is one of the many mantras of the anti-vaccine liars. Note
that I am not referring to you, but to what you said.

> While I think highly of such avocations, I think
> rather less of insulting people to try to convince them to think your
> way.

I did not call you an anti-vaccine liar. If you are insulted, then
perhaps a period of introspection is in order.

Note that I call an anti-vaccer liar, simply because they are liars, and
NOTHING I say or do will change their mind.

I figure it probably does the opposite of what is intended. It
> certainly causes me to think twice about your motives.

Think as many times as you wish.

> I seriously doubt there are very many "anti-vaccination" people
> out there, but there may be many anti-Thimerosal people based on what
> has been in the news.

The anti-vacs are out there, and, now that the mercury<->autism myth has
been shown to be just that, they are more virulent in their
anti-vaccination bleating and braying.

Mercury scares many people, especially after
> hearing that certain people should avoid certain fish that may be full
> of it.

Of course, if you do not know that the mercury in fish is chemically not
the same as the mercury in vaccines, then you would be scared. This is
the type of belief that the anti-vac liars rely on to promote their
agendas.

> Whether you feel that the info is true or not, it is something
> that parents worry about, which won't go away by a lot of name-
> calling.

Intelligent people will look harder when they hear that they are being
lied to.

> As to a "downturn in the uptake" of drug company products, causing
> them grievous financial losses, by simply removing Thimerosal, there
> wouldn't be any problem.

Strawman. The downturn in the uptake affects herd immunity. Ever hear of
it?

> And probably with less money lost than
> trying to keep the Thimerosal in there and deal with the
> "scaremongers".

> In any event, I for one would certainly be happy to hear whatever
> you can add about avoiding mercury in our daily foods and medicines.
> My first thought would be to put capable scrubbers on power company
> coal plants.

Absolutely, or, like we did in my area, close one down and put in a nice
natural gas one. Now the snow stays white far longer than ever before.

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