From: Peter Parry on
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0000, "john" <nospam(a)bt.com> wrote:


>"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
>so you agree with me that that was a lie, as he said it was only
>vaccination.
>
> "It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of the
>MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal.

He appears to have said nothing of the sort. Having improved public
health to a point where further health returns (for infectious
diseases) were no longer happening the later improvement is clearly
down to vaccination as the figures you kindly provided show. There is
nothing in his statement which is either untrue or inconsistent with
that fact.

>> The next decline only took place after the introduction of measles
>> vaccination and between 1968 and 1989 dropped to about 1-3. Since
>> then it has stayed at that level.
>
>I know the stats, have a look at the graph

The graph and figures you derived it from clearly supports what I have
said. It is not my fault you have chosen a scale which hides the
effect you don't want people to see.
From: bae on
In article <sne0n5dt7apcada5js04jgbgelbr5c8ka4(a)4ax.com>,
Peter Parry <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
>On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0000, "john" <nospam(a)bt.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
>>so you agree with me that that was a lie, as he said it was only
>>vaccination.
>>
>> "It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of the
>>MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal.
>
>He appears to have said nothing of the sort. Having improved public
>health to a point where further health returns (for infectious
>diseases) were no longer happening the later improvement is clearly
>down to vaccination as the figures you kindly provided show. There is
>nothing in his statement which is either untrue or inconsistent with
>that fact.

Peter, the main reason measles *deaths* plummeted after WWII was the
availability of antibiotics to treat pneumonia, a common complication of
measles. The rate of measles encephalitis wasn't affected, so most of
the deaths were then due to this complication, as were the many cases of
brain damage resulting in blindness, etc. IIRC, before the measles
vaccine, measles encephalitis was the most common cause of blindness in
children.

John likes to distort statistics by focusing on deaths rather than
incidence. Better supportive care (e.g. iron lungs for polio) and
antibiotics can reduce the *death* rate but not the incidence of a
disease. Death isn't the only undesirable outcome.
From: john on

"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:sne0n5dt7apcada5js04jgbgelbr5c8ka4(a)4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:30:05 -0000, "john" <nospam(a)bt.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
>>so you agree with me that that was a lie, as he said it was only
>>vaccination.
>>
>> "It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of
>> the
>>MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal.
>
> He appears to have said nothing of the sort.

he did actually, look at the video.

You can't see the truth as it would bust your pharma reality


From: john on

<bae(a)cs.toronto.no-uce.edu> wrote in message
news:2010Feb8.123334.28201(a)jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...

>
> Peter, the main reason measles *deaths* plummeted after WWII was the
> availability of antibiotics to treat pneumonia, a common complication of
> measles. The rate of measles encephalitis wasn't affected, so most of
> the deaths were then due to this complication, as were the many cases of
> brain damage resulting in blindness, etc. IIRC, before the measles
> vaccine, measles encephalitis was the most common cause of blindness in
> children.
>
> John likes to distort statistics by focusing on deaths rather than
> incidence. Better supportive care (e.g. iron lungs for polio) and
> antibiotics can reduce the *death* rate but not the incidence of a
> disease. Death isn't the only undesirable outcome.

I focus on deaths as that is the only statistic required to be kept by law,
all the otehr ones, incidence etc can be manipulated to suit, and were, now
measles has to be diagnosed by lab

and deaths would be tied to morbidity I would have thought

they concentrate on incidence as they control reporting on that, and the
only reason anyone cared about incidence was due to the death rate

and anyway, naturopaths in 1860 never lost a case of measles

also 50% plus deaths were due to chemotherapy

these quotes show the real story http://www.whale.to/m/quotes19.html

either way, as you say, vaccination played a minute part at best (in reality
nil), contrary to what parents are sold, as this propagndist said--100%



From: dr_jeff on
john wrote:
> "dr_jeff" <utz(a)msu.edu> wrote in message
> news:gdudnUA_k8qAbfLWnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com...
>> john wrote:
>>> "It (measles) is ONLY not a big killer in the United States because of
>>> the MMR vaccine."---Dr Marc Siegal. (Feb 3, 2010 Fox News)
>>> http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/watch-the-fox-news-video-on-vaccine-autism-debate-with-mark-blaxill.html
>>>
>>> http://www.whale.to/m/measlesdeaths1.html
>>> Measles deaths (from 1901/2, averaged) declined by 99.4% before
>>> vaccination in 1968!
>> So some children are still dying from measles. And, some children are also
>> have life-problems from measles encephalopathy, like hearing loss. And
>> that's ok with you. Got it.
>
> use vitamin C if you actually cared about that
> http://www.whale.to/a/levy_h.html
> and arren't we forgetting about vaccine derived encephalopathy?
> http://www.whale.to/vaccines/encephalomyelitis.html
> http://www.whale.to/vaccines/encephalitis.htm
>
> "Dr. Levy shows that many viral diseases such as polio, hepatitis, and
> encephalitis have been consistently cured by high doses of vitamin C given
> intravenously

And this work was published in what journals?

Jeff