From: Sumbuny on



"Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
news:4519b594$0$23949$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>
> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
> news:TcgSg.1406$Rp3.392(a)dukeread12...
>>
>>>
>>> One can be different and still be normal. Your semantics suck.
>>
>> Agreed...I would much prefer to be "different" than someone like vernon
>> appears to be...I would much prefer to be someone who works toward
>> finding approaches that work towards a person's strengths, and "set them
>> up for success" rather than allow them to wallow in failure--just because
>> someone thinks that this is lessening the other person. That attitude is
>> condescension.
>
> You are the most condescending person here re: ADHD
> I actually "set them up AS succesful"

Yet you refuse to follow any kind of supports for anyone who is dealing with
ADHD? That is setting them up for failure...

>
>>
>> I prefer to be "different" than the person who looks down on a person who
>> needs a helping hand....
>>
>> I prefer to be different than the person who refuses to let the
>> nearsighted person put on his/her glasses, who refuses to let a person
>> who is Deaf have the services of a translator, who refuses to let a
>> person who has diabetic use insulin, who refuses to let a person who is
>> blind use Braille, and who refuses to let a person who cannot mentally
>> focus (ADHD) to use tools (such as the pedagogy tools in the link above,
>> or the medication comparable to the diabetic)....
>
> A little education for you. No one is "normal".

And where did I ever claim anyone ever was?

>
> Mental variations are more in the mind of paid psychologists or failing
> parents.

Ah...a little Bettlehiem here? I believe that theory was disproven over 50
years ago...

>
> You just refuse to say it to those who have different needs / really
> advantages.
>
> You refuse to tell someone they have special capabilities that you don't.

You just do not get it....you would probably be the one that would be in
shock when I told the preschooler who was in the wheelchair that was going
down the hall too fast to "quit running"....and the first thing she did was
hit the breaks....one of the other regular ed teachers was aghast that I
actually did that, but Jane Doe knew what she was doing--going too fast,
just like the kid next to her (I actually told them both to quit running in
the hall--they knew the rules against running in the halls). I treated her
*exactly* like any other kid...

What would you have done? Would you have said "Quit wheeling too fast?" Or
is "quit running?" to a 4 year old just as effective?

Are you afraid to say to a person who is blind "hey, next time you see Jane,
tell her this for me" just like you would say to anyone else? I do it all
the time...

Do you ask your Deaf friend, "Have you heard the one about....?" I do...

So don't make assUmptions about what I do around people with
exceptionalities...I have been working with people with exceptionalities for
16 years....both in my family and in the school system...

You have been "helping" a doctor and "helping" patients who come in when
they are sick--for how long? I have been seeing the same people routinely
for that long...

--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus


From: Sumbuny on

"Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
news:4519b975$0$23858$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>
> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
> news:lhgSg.1409$Rp3.786(a)dukeread12...
>>
>>
>>
>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>> news:4518526a$0$23950$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>
>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:xbYRg.1379$Rp3.848(a)dukeread12...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Teachers have to be very concerned about ADHD...their jobs may depend
>>>> on how informed they are about it, if they have students that have
>>>> it....
>>>
>>>
>>> They have students they don't like. Children are not automons that need
>>> "fixing".
>>
>> Please state where I have ever claimed that they where....
>>
>> What I have implied is that teachers will always have some students that
>> need certain accommodations...and federal law *requires* that these
>> accommodations be met...
>
> Good
> As long as the various students are not separated and specifically
> identified as different. The child knows whether they are different.
> They don't need analysing face to face. If the teacher is any good the
> teacher will help the child without saying the child is different in any
> way. The biggest challenge for the teacher is to convince the child they
> are "O.K".

Never said that they would--since you are so "educated" (you must be, since
you have sneered so much at those who are not in other posts), you must also
know that there are laws that also ensure that educators cannot reveal
medical conditions of students either...

Surely you knew that--since you know so much about medicine...

>
> As a scout master a while back of 120 scouts, I ran accross all kinds.

120 Scouts? That size troop is rather large to be manageable...how did you
handle it? How did you manage to properly oversee that many boys to ensure
that everything was done according to BSA requirements and that all were
getting all of ther badges done on time, that they were progressing in rank
(i.e., that no one boy was "lagging") that all the paperwork was properly
done, etc...

Really intriguing, what with all your other duties and expertise...

> A little example was a boy limited to a wheel chair. There were some
> things he obviously couldn't do. I went to a local hospital and borrowed
> 30 wheel chairs. I set up various games for three weeks in a row. He was
> a star in every one. His nick name from then on was "speedy". When we
> went hiking it became a privelage for other scouts to push him when
> necessary or get him over a log.

What kind of chair did you get for the hike?

> His father subsequently joined the leadership and said he couldn't belive
> how his son was so excited to mix. The scout earned his Eagle.

Isn't that what it is all about, though? <g>]

>
> There are dozens of other such situations.
>
> There were several which would have been perfect candidates for today's
> ADHD treatment. Without exception they became leaders or semi leaders and
> were the most strict with those "others" who would pay attention or moved
> around or interupted.

ADHD is no bar to attaining rank...in fact, Scouting, with its goals and
benchmarks, supervised peer interaction and teaching, is actually *better*
suited in many ways to boys that have developmental difficulties such as
ADHD...I know, we have several Eagles and Eagle candidates that have ADHD,
and several Eagles over our troop's 50+ year history that have had
disabilities...
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Besides have it myself, and having children with it, I am a dual major
>>>> (special ed, and elementary ed)...I know at least a little about
>>>> this...
>>>
>>>
>>> You are obsessed with yoursel and have passed it on to your children.
>>
>> There you go...assUming again...
>>
>> I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years after my children were...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> AD/HD doesn't exist except on paper.
>>
>> Nest thing you will be insisting is that my son's co-morbid autism does
>> not exist either (as well as his co-existing determination of being
>> academically gifted)...
>>
>> I suppose that both of these are "just on paper" as well?
>>
>> Tell us...where did you get your degree in neurology? or psychiatry?
>> psychology?

Haven't seen you answer this one yet....



--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus


From: Sumbuny on

"Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
news:4519bc46$0$23889$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>
> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
> news:lhgSg.1409$Rp3.786(a)dukeread12...
>>
>>
>>
>>> AD/HD doesn't exist except on paper.
>>
>> Nest thing you will be insisting is that my son's co-morbid autism does
>> not exist either (as well as his co-existing determination of being
>> academically gifted)...
>>
>
>
> ADHD is NOT Autism and isn't related.

Never claimed it was....but the fact that it is a developmental disability,
it cannot be tested by blood or by EEG--it has to be test in many of the
same ways that ADHD is...

But it would seem that you have issues with people who have autism--"blame
the parent" instead of accepting that it is an actual diagnosis...
Original Message -----
>>From: "Vernon" <athere(a)athere>
>>Newsgroups:
>>misc.health.alternative,alt.support.attn-deficit,misc.kids.health
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:19 PM
>>Subject: Re: The Ty Pennington Story

>> Mental variations are more in the mind of paid psychologists or failing
>> parents.

Are you going to tell me that in the above, you are not going to include
autism?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Don't get trapped into those who want to suck you into their camp or hang
> on to your dilemma..
>
> There is nothing (nothing) more lovable and special than the autistic.

Then explain how you have painted yourself into a corner, then.....


>
> It is not a training or psychological problem. It is physical. If
> researchers can keep their concentration of analyzing nerve synapses et al
> without interference from pseudo scientists called psychologists or
> psychiatrists, there WILL, someday, be a cure or almost cure or even
> prevention. You may not see it, but don't get side tracked in other
> variances. Don't let others try to LUMP your child into a vague group
> including ADHD.


Problem came about when the doctor who diagnosed him could not explain all
of his difficulties with only the autism...but with the *proper*diagnostic
constellation, and the *proper* therapy, he is now succeeding--and, with the
*proper* therapy and support (which included the things that you have had a
diatribe against, BTW)...he is now an Eagle candidate...

If I had followed your advice, he would be failing...

Good thing I choose to advocate for those who need advocates, instead of
simply judging from on high...good thing I actually work with them
(sometimes "in the trenches"...i.e., actually *in the schools* where they
need it) instead of making pronouncements that might do more harm than
good...



--
Buny

" Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
normal."
~ Albert Camus


From: ace_berzerker on
Mark Probert wrote:
> ace_berzerker wrote:
>> Sumbuny wrote:
>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>> news:451850d7$0$23824$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>> Pragmatic and consistant behavior based on a beleif system is a
>>>> religion
>>>> Jogging EVERY day is a religion.
>>>> TaiChi IS a religion
>>>> Yoga is a religion.
>>>
>>> *IF* it becomes all-comsuming, anything can be a religion...for some,
>>> their computer is their god--is that so for you?
>>> Is "anti-medication" *your* religion??? It would seem so to many
>>> here...
>>
>> GOOD ONE!
>
> If you examine the writings of the anti-medication morons, you would
> find that they are, for the most part, similar to religious
> fundamentalists.

makes sense.
From: Vernon on

"Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
news:aMCSg.1448$Rp3.798(a)dukeread12...
>
>
>
> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
> news:4519b2c6$0$23855$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>
>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>> news:TdgSg.1408$Rp3.582(a)dukeread12...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname(a)ratbags.com> wrote in message
>>> news:o6sgh2tlcftd0idvr45kqc8h8cir9ikf2d(a)4ax.com...
>>>> ace_berzerker <ace_berzerker(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Vernon wrote:
>>>>>> The only thing I thought was that girls are easy and the prettier,
>>>>>> the easier. By easy, I DON'T mean sexually, just easy to make a
>>>>>> follower or partner. A LOT of it was not my charm (I didn't think I
>>>>>> had any), but having answers in group studies and in lab work.
>>>>>
>>>>>not part of my experience.
>>>>>
>>>>>i went to a college prep for boys, run by the jesuits.
>>>>>
>>>>>if we got out of line, there was 60 lines of shakespeare waiting to be
>>>>>memorized on saturday morning.
>>>>
>>>> No problem for Vern. About the only thing he hasn't claimed is that he
>>>> wrote Shakespeare, but he has probably appeared in all the plays.
>>>> Probably taught Olivier and Brannagh how to act as well.
>>>
>>> ROTFLMHO!!!! I have to remember this one!
>>>
>> Actually it is nearly impossible for me to memorize (rote memorize).
>
> Rather common problem for those who are dealing with undiagnosed and
> untreated ADHD

Totally and completely wrong.

Do some real research.
Your phony doctors have really memorized you.

Many people who are diagnosed with ADHD have that syndrome. As adults, they
are tested as something ENTIRELY different that you will never understand or
believe. Now find out what type of person has that syndrome and what
opposite traits they have that many would practically kill for unless
hopeful actors or singers.

GO take your drugs and get happy.
Don't forget to tell your kid that you thought you were helping, then the
kid dies and you can say you did everything when you did NOTHING

Change shrinks before you do your kid some real damage that is irreversible.