From: Mark Probert on
Vernon wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:fLYRg.4059$Zj4.2093(a)trndny04...
>> Vernon wrote:
>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>> news:EJURg.1331$0Y2.806(a)trndny09...
>>>> PeterB wrote:
>>>>> Rich wrote:
>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:spERg.1341$Rp3.1000(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4515cb06$0$23828$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:NcjRg.1294$Rp3.781(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:45140cd0$0$23894$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:KMEQg.71$Rp3.63(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:wPdQg.3212$Se.671(a)trndny03...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.adderallxr.com/ty/ty_story/
>>>>>>>>>>>> No surprise there...I suspected he was ADHD since he was on
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Trading
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spaces"...the fact that he "came out" about it was brave, since
>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> many who have it do not want other to know about it, fearing
>>>>>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>>> will harm their careers...a shame, really.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Buny
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy
>>>>>>>>>>>> merely to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be normal."
>>>>>>>>>>>> ~ Albert Camus
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Most who have the imaginary "it" don't know they have "it" and
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> get on with their lives knowing that no two people are alike and
>>>>>>>>>>> REFUSE to take drugs to become an automon or programmed
>>>>>>>>>>> personality
>>>>>>>>>>> that fits some imaginary standard.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, there are people who ACTUALLY like who they are. Then there
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> the druggies and alcoholics.
>>>>>>>>>> Perfect example...if I said I had ADHD, would you say the same
>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>> about me as well?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Buny
>>>>>>>>> If you said it, you would be wrong, absolutely convinced and
>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>> under some treatment, but wrong.
>>>>>>>> ...and if I told you that my treatment involved such non-medicinal
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> as seen here? http://www.ldonline.org/article/8797?theme=print
>>>>>>> Teachers have NO business to instruct children about ADHD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> What an incredibly stupid comment! First of all, the article is about
>>>>>> instructing children who HAVE ADHD, not instructing children ABOUT
>>>>>> ADHD.
>>>>>> (More evidence of your poor reading comprehension skills.) Second,
>>>>>> teachers
>>>>>> are very much in the business of instructing children about anything
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> everything, and certainly ADHD is a subject that children should know
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> about, since they are interacting daily with ADHD fellow students.
>>>>>> Third,
>>>>>> YOU have no business telling teachers what they should teach.
>>>>> Pu-leeze. The only medical issues that teachers should be talking to
>>>>> children about are those relating to the approved curriculum, not an
>>>>> "amphetakids" commercial from the drug makers designed to turn every
>>>>> kid into an addict.
>>>> Petey, can you read? The URL posted by Buny is an excellent summation of
>>>> teching strategies and skills for the instruction of all children.
>>>> Nowhere does that article address teaching kids ABOUT the disorder.
>>>>
>>>> HOWEVER, considering that kids with the disorder are often ostracized,
>>>> bullied and tormented, teaching children about why others act
>>>> differently is something that a teacher should do. Oftentimes, school is
>>>> the one place in a child's life where they are meeting people who are
>>>> different from them.
>>>>
>>> Sure, teach them that "those" people are not normal. They are
>>> "different".
>> One can be different and still be normal. Your semantics suck.
>
> Tell that to a school child and then give a lecture on semantics.
> The child will likely be SCARRED for life. They will be on meds.

I see, so you think that all normal kids are exactly alike.

As for being scarred for life...doubtful...remember, I have two kids who
are "different" and still quite normal. Neither are scarred for life.

> Answer why they are on meds and the others aren't.
> Sick? Different? mental? nuts? uncontrollable?

Different, but still normal. Both of my kids understand that. When my
younger son mentions that he does half-marathons in his wheelchair, he
is acknowledging his difference, but, at the same time, he is engaging
in competitive sports and doing quite well. (He recently paced a W/C
marathoner (for the half marathon) who has won the NYC, Boston, LA and
several other marathons, and has medaled in the Paraolympics.)

>>> I was different.
>> What do you mean "was"?
>
> I was different as a child.
> I am different as an adult.

That is what I said. You must have missed it.

>> Often the neat (jocks) people would try to make fun. BUT
>>> since I was never told I was a "sicko" needing drugs, I survived.
>> That has never been determinative of anything. Bullying is perpetrated by
>> those who can do it because they have problems, not the victims.
>
> I didn't mention bullying.

Glad that you acknowledged your shortcomings. What you described is
bullying. Period. It creates a toxic environment in schools and was
found to be present by NTAC in 2/3rds of the school shootings they
investigated.

> Those who "bully" need to be bullied by the responsible teacher or
> "ejected".

I would put it differently. Those who bully must be taught that it is
anti-social behavior that will not be tolerated in any manner. Period.

> Bullying is an outward manifestation controlled, not by medication, but by
> discipline.

The only chemical cures for bullying are highly toxic. It is a character
defect that can be addressed. However, since bullies often learn the
behavior at home, overcoming that influence is difficult. The
parent-bully will often dismiss the schools efforts to address the
problem, and further da
From: Mark Probert on
Sumbuny wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:fLYRg.4059$Zj4.2093(a)trndny04...
>> Vernon wrote:
>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>> news:EJURg.1331$0Y2.806(a)trndny09...
>>>> PeterB wrote:
>>>>> Rich wrote:
>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:spERg.1341$Rp3.1000(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4515cb06$0$23828$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:NcjRg.1294$Rp3.781(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:45140cd0$0$23894$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:KMEQg.71$Rp3.63(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:wPdQg.3212$Se.671(a)trndny03...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.adderallxr.com/ty/ty_story/
>>>>>>>>>>>> No surprise there...I suspected he was ADHD since he was on
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Trading
>>>>>>>>>>>> Spaces"...the fact that he "came out" about it was brave, since
>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> many who have it do not want other to know about it, fearing
>>>>>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>>> will harm their careers...a shame, really.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Buny
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy
>>>>>>>>>>>> merely to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be normal."
>>>>>>>>>>>> ~ Albert Camus
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Most who have the imaginary "it" don't know they have "it" and
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> get on with their lives knowing that no two people are alike and
>>>>>>>>>>> REFUSE to take drugs to become an automon or programmed
>>>>>>>>>>> personality
>>>>>>>>>>> that fits some imaginary standard.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, there are people who ACTUALLY like who they are. Then there
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> the druggies and alcoholics.
>>>>>>>>>> Perfect example...if I said I had ADHD, would you say the same
>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>> about me as well?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Buny
>>>>>>>>> If you said it, you would be wrong, absolutely convinced and
>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>> under some treatment, but wrong.
>>>>>>>> ...and if I told you that my treatment involved such non-medicinal
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> as seen here? http://www.ldonline.org/article/8797?theme=print
>>>>>>> Teachers have NO business to instruct children about ADHD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> What an incredibly stupid comment! First of all, the article is about
>>>>>> instructing children who HAVE ADHD, not instructing children ABOUT
>>>>>> ADHD.
>>>>>> (More evidence of your poor reading comprehension skills.) Second,
>>>>>> teachers
>>>>>> are very much in the business of instructing children about anything
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> everything, and certainly ADHD is a subject that children should know
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> about, since they are interacting daily with ADHD fellow students.
>>>>>> Third,
>>>>>> YOU have no business telling teachers what they should teach.
>>>>> Pu-leeze. The only medical issues that teachers should be talking to
>>>>> children about are those relating to the approved curriculum, not an
>>>>> "amphetakids" commercial from the drug makers designed to turn every
>>>>> kid into an addict.
>>>> Petey, can you read? The URL posted by Buny is an excellent summation of
>>>> teching strategies and skills for the instruction of all children.
>>>> Nowhere does that article address teaching kids ABOUT the disorder.
>>>>
>>>> HOWEVER, considering that kids with the disorder are often ostracized,
>>>> bullied and tormented, teaching children about why others act
>>>> differently is something that a teacher should do. Oftentimes, school is
>>>> the one place in a child's life where they are meeting people who are
>>>> different from them.
>>>>
>>> Sure, teach them that "those" people are not normal. They are
>>> "different".
>> One can be different and still be normal. Your semantics suck.
>
> Agreed...I would much prefer to be "different" than someone like vernon
> appears to be...I would much prefer to be someone who works toward finding
> approaches that work towards a person's strengths, and "set them up for
> success" rather than allow them to wallow in failure--just because someone
> thinks that this is lessening the other person. That attitude is
> condescension.
>
> I prefer to be "different" than the person who looks down on a person who
> needs a helping hand....
>
> I prefer to be different than the person who refuses to let the nearsighted
> person put on his/her glasses, who refuses to let a person who is Deaf have
> the services of a translator, who refuses to let a person who has diabetic
> use insulin, who refuses to let a person who is blind use Braille, and who
> refuses to let a person who cannot mentally focus (ADHD) to use tools (such
> as the pedagogy tools in the link above, or the medication comparable to the
> diabetic)....
>
> To do otherwise is abusive to the student as a teacher, and neglectful as a
> parent--either of which is criminal in the eyes of the law....

YS had three requests to the prom last May. Every one of the girls was
quite different from the other, and their disabilities were all different.

>> Vern, the "Chick magnet"
>
> Go back to your science classes, Vern...you might then recall that magnets
> also repel...

That is repulsive.
From: Mark Probert on
Sumbuny wrote:
> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
> news:4518526a$0$23950$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>> news:xbYRg.1379$Rp3.848(a)dukeread12...
>>>
>>> Teachers have to be very concerned about ADHD...their jobs may depend on
>>> how informed they are about it, if they have students that have it....
>>
>> They have students they don't like. Children are not automons that need
>> "fixing".
>
> Please state where I have ever claimed that they where....
>
> What I have implied is that teachers will always have some students that
> need certain accommodations...and federal law *requires* that these
> accommodations be met...
>
>>> Besides have it myself, and having children with it, I am a dual major
>>> (special ed, and elementary ed)...I know at least a little about this...
>>
>> You are obsessed with yoursel and have passed it on to your children.
>
> There you go...assUming again...
>
> I was diagnosed with ADHD about 10 years after my children were...
>
>
>> AD/HD doesn't exist except on paper.
>
> Nest thing you will be insisting is that my son's co-morbid autism does not
> exist either (as well as his co-existing determination of being academically
> gifted)...
>
> I suppose that both of these are "just on paper" as well?
>
> Tell us...where did you get your degree in neurology? or psychiatry?
> psychology?

Cracker Jack University.

From: Sumbuny on


"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:gKgSg.1404$0Y2.539(a)trndny09...
> Sumbuny wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>> news:fLYRg.4059$Zj4.2093(a)trndny04...
>>> Vernon wrote:
>>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:EJURg.1331$0Y2.806(a)trndny09...
>>>>> PeterB wrote:
>>>>>> Rich wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:spERg.1341$Rp3.1000(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4515cb06$0$23828$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:NcjRg.1294$Rp3.781(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:45140cd0$0$23894$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:KMEQg.71$Rp3.63(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:wPdQg.3212$Se.671(a)trndny03...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.adderallxr.com/ty/ty_story/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No surprise there...I suspected he was ADHD since he was on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Trading
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spaces"...the fact that he "came out" about it was brave,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> since so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many who have it do not want other to know about it, fearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will harm their careers...a shame, really.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buny
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> merely to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be normal."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~ Albert Camus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Most who have the imaginary "it" don't know they have "it" and
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> get on with their lives knowing that no two people are alike
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> REFUSE to take drugs to become an automon or programmed
>>>>>>>>>>>> personality
>>>>>>>>>>>> that fits some imaginary standard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, there are people who ACTUALLY like who they are. Then
>>>>>>>>>>>> there are
>>>>>>>>>>>> the druggies and alcoholics.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perfect example...if I said I had ADHD, would you say the same
>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>> about me as well?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Buny
>>>>>>>>>> If you said it, you would be wrong, absolutely convinced and
>>>>>>>>>> possibly
>>>>>>>>>> under some treatment, but wrong.
>>>>>>>>> ...and if I told you that my treatment involved such non-medicinal
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> as seen here? http://www.ldonline.org/article/8797?theme=print
>>>>>>>> Teachers have NO business to instruct children about ADHD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What an incredibly stupid comment! First of all, the article is
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> instructing children who HAVE ADHD, not instructing children ABOUT
>>>>>>> ADHD.
>>>>>>> (More evidence of your poor reading comprehension skills.) Second,
>>>>>>> teachers
>>>>>>> are very much in the business of instructing children about anything
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> everything, and certainly ADHD is a subject that children should
>>>>>>> know more
>>>>>>> about, since they are interacting daily with ADHD fellow students.
>>>>>>> Third,
>>>>>>> YOU have no business telling teachers what they should teach.
>>>>>> Pu-leeze. The only medical issues that teachers should be talking to
>>>>>> children about are those relating to the approved curriculum, not an
>>>>>> "amphetakids" commercial from the drug makers designed to turn every
>>>>>> kid into an addict.
>>>>> Petey, can you read? The URL posted by Buny is an excellent summation
>>>>> of teching strategies and skills for the instruction of all children.
>>>>> Nowhere does that article address teaching kids ABOUT the disorder.
>>>>>
>>>>> HOWEVER, considering that kids with the disorder are often ostracized,
>>>>> bullied and tormented, teaching children about why others act
>>>>> differently is something that a teacher should do. Oftentimes, school
>>>>> is the one place in a child's life where they are meeting people who
>>>>> are different from them.
>>>>>
>>>> Sure, teach them that "those" people are not normal. They are
>>>> "different".
>>> One can be different and still be normal. Your semantics suck.
>>
>> Agreed...I would much prefer to be "different" than someone like vernon
>> appears to be...I would much prefer to be someone who works toward
>> finding approaches that work towards a person's strengths, and "set them
>> up for success" rather than allow them to wallow in failure--just because
>> someone thinks that this is lessening the other person. That attitude is
>> condescension.
>>
>> I prefer to be "different" than the person who looks down on a person who
>> needs a helping hand....
>>
>> I prefer to be different than the person who refuses to let the
>> nearsighted person put on his/her glasses, who refuses to let a person
>> who is Deaf have the services of a translator, who refuses to let a
>> person who has diabetic use insulin, who refuses to let a person who is
>> blind use Braille, and who refuses to let a person who cannot mentally
>> focus (ADHD) to use tools (such as the pedagogy tools in the link above,
>> or the medication comparable to the diabetic)....
>>
>> To do otherwise is abusive to the student as a teacher, and neglectful as
>> a parent--either of which is criminal in the eyes of the law....
>
> YS had three requests to the prom last May. Every one of the girls was
> quite different from the other, and their disabilities were all different.
>
>>> Vern, the "Chick magnet"
>>
>> Go back to your science classes, Vern...you might then recall that
>> magnets also repel...
>
> That is repulsive.


Y'know, I am beginning to think that Vern might also have a disability as
well...one that impacts his ability to envision...

...has to do with the blinders he is wearing <sigh>

Ignorance can be cured with education...even people with diametrically
opping viewpoints can come to an understanding to "agree to disagree"....but
someone who refuses to do either....endangers children (according to the
laws cited previously, and taught to teachers and other child caregivers by
their respective univ
From: Vernon on

"Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
news:p6gSg.1405$Rp3.472(a)dukeread12...
>
>
>
> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
> news:451850d7$0$23824$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>
>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>> news:t6YRg.1378$Rp3.42(a)dukeread12...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Vernon" <athere(a)athere> wrote in message
>>> news:4517ebe1$0$23908$882e0bbb(a)news.ThunderNews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Sumbuny" <Sumbuny(a)THISSHOULDBEGONEcox.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:GwGRg.1348$Rp3.943(a)dukeread12...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> O.K., you have some mental problems and have found a new religion.
>>>>
>>>> It is interfering with your ability to see when someone is in general
>>>> agreement.
>>>>
>>>> If you think your religion needs defending, re-think your decisions.
>>>
>>> What are you "generally agreeing" with...exactly? Oh, and FWIW, my
>>> religious beliefs have nothing to do with my medical and educational
>>> therapies....
>>
>> "religious" is NOT limited to deistic.
>>
>> Pragmatic and consistant behavior based on a beleif system is a religion
>> Jogging EVERY day is a religion.
>> TaiChi IS a religion
>> Yoga is a religion.
>> To some their doctor is their God.
>>
>> YOU brought up the mind control exersize. (religion)
>
> *IF* it becomes all-comsuming, anything can be a religion...for some,
> their computer is their god--is that so for you?
>
> <considering direction of posts from Vernon>
>
> Is "anti-medication" *your* religion??? It would seem so to many here...
>

Since I work with many M.Ds and help in their research, hardly.
It's just that when I tell the truth about much of the medical profession
and even suggest that there are solutions that do not require medication,
the super religios become catatonic. Catatonic is an extrapolation of the
imaginary illness called ADHD.
"""""""""""""
"Is "anti-medication" *your* religion??? It would seem so to many here..."
""""""""""""""""

Only to the generally uneducated and Pharm employees or Doctors trying to
defend their near malpractice.
My stance is that presciption meds are almost required for direct action
against a disease / malady. THEN there is the preventative and full
recovery aspect. There are very few prescription meds for that.

There really are alternatives to patented medications.
Your term "anti medication" is an illustration of ignorance. There are
thousands of non prescription medications that are very effective.
Many exercise programs are effective.
Many placebo (mind control) programs also exist (Tai Chi, Yoga,
concentration) None have proven to be more effective than the simple slow
breathing exercises. When someone learns how to do it (no far East
mysticism religions) they can lower their heart rate AND B.P. an amazing
percentage. Of course you have NEVER heard of the white coat syndrome or
have no idea what it specifically is.
With breathing exercises one can actually raise their ejection factor.

Of course another non-prescription answer to what is called ADHD is a
parent, a real parent, not some twit who thinks they should be a child's
freind. Being a child's freind is simply lowering one's self to the
intellect / mentality of the child. THIS IS AN INVARIABLE.



>
> --
> Buny
>
> " Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be
> normal."
> ~ Albert Camus
>
>