Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
in [Vegetarian]
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From: crisology on 13 Aug 2008 03:47 On Aug 12, 5:16 pm, arch...(a)scfas.com wrote: > long segments of irrelevant quibbles snipped. On Aug 12, 3:12 pm, crisology <crisol...(a)aol.com> wrote: > So there is nothing unnatural or unhealthy in terms of diet by > replenishing (returning) B12 by supplementing foods that were depleted > of B12 through processing. Your cryptic fixation on OT cultural & financial issues while ignoring health & adaptation related reasons for diet has been duly noted. > Cow manure is the primary > fertilizer India's cow manure was NOT "the primary fertilizer" for 63 million yrs of primate evolution. You are completely ignoring human adaptation and nutritional reasons for plant based diets while you remain narrowly focussed on modern farming methods out of habitat. Bacteria are washed off commercial food but in African rainforests, wild figs, leaves can be teeming w/B12. > they do not otherwise tap into the cow to manure to > soil to cow cycle where the bacteria is abundant in all parts. You are not providing a snapshot of the raw habitat primates evolved in by any stretch. Your cryptic examples are not remotely related to conditions of the rainforests in Africa today or at any time.. Stripped/turned soil, out of habitat for processed commercial crops using pesticides that leave oil residues that restrict micronutrient absorption, washing, cooking after transport, weather changes, etc do NOT reflect the natural diet of fresh raw, unprocessed fruit/leaves in rainforests. Cow manure can be "the primary fertilizer" but if any commercial fertilizers have been used, oil residues are left, which impede micronutrient absorption. You are purposely trying to use unnatural examples to pass off as somehow representing adaptive environment while ignoring the fact there is no B12 issue in natural habitat for any frugivorous hominidae. > > "There was no shortage of available B12 on plant based diets while > direct > > lineage was adapting for 63 million yrs. There are no B12 deficiencies > > known among wild great apes in habitat. There is no B12 issue except for > > the irrelevant, off topic modern cultural/financial "restrictions" you > > ar= > e > > > trying to carve out while ignoring adaptation and health in general." > > > And all animals find it either in the soil or in feces or by consuming > > animal products or producing it in their own large gut. They ignore > > financual considerations has they have for millions of years. Bacteria > > produce vit b12, not plants. Fermenting bacteria cultures may spread away from the feces. The feces does not have to be sought/consumed directly.for B12 to be available on leaves/fruit/water/sand uncovered with the feces itself. > "B12 is also naturally found in/on plants. Drinking water from a stream in > a forest may also provide B12. The fact is there are no wild primates > deficient in B12 so it really isn't an issue anyway. The B12 deficiency is > the result of modern "farming methods" as you admitted with your India > example." > > Plants do not > produce it bacteria do. Animals do not produce it, bacteria do. Chris
From: archaea on 13 Aug 2008 08:46 > > And all animals find it either in the soil or in feces or by consuming > > animal products or producing it in their own large gut. They ignore > > financual considerations has they have for millions of years. Bacteria > > produce vit b12, not plants. "Fermenting bacteria cultures may spread away from the feces. The feces does not have to be sought/consumed directly.for B12 to be available on leaves/fruit/water/sand uncovered with the feces itself." Yes, but it does not exclude feces in the soil being associated with plant parts either. As above, soil can contain the bacteria as your blurb mentions. > "B12 is also naturally found in/on plants. Drinking water from a stream in > a forest may also provide B12. The fact is there are no wild primates > deficient in B12 so it really isn't an issue anyway. The B12 deficiency is > the result of modern "farming methods" as you admitted with your India > example." > > Plants do not > produce it bacteria do. "Animals do not produce it, bacteria do." Who said otherwise? However in contrast to plants, animal guts harbor and provide access to the food for the bacteria. Animal guts are a core part of the cycle, plants are incidental and not necessary for it except as food in part for the bacteria. Plants can have the soil and/feces attached to them or have infused some minor part of vit b12 into them depending on the type of plant. Unless you have more to add, going round one more time seems a waste. There is no mystery that humans must tap into the gut to feces to soil back to gut cycle at some point to get vit b12. Plants can be a mechanical tool to do this under certain conditions where soil and/feces or water from same are present. All your remarks but support this, again.
From: dh on 13 Aug 2008 09:30 On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:16:51 +0100, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote: >Japan's diet stands on a foundation of rice." Rice is starch. Starch is just complex sugar, so they could do just as well or better by living on Captain Crunch.
From: pearl on 13 Aug 2008 15:26 <dh@.> wrote in message news:ieo5a4t4aqvltnfq55jan0srf9s1kkemtd(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:16:51 +0100, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote: > > >Japan's diet stands on a foundation of rice." > > Rice is starch. Starch is just complex sugar, so they > could do just as well or better by living on Captain Crunch. 'Brown rice is often referred to as Natures most perfect food. It is the least processed rice and highest in nutritional value. Rich in magnesium, copper, fiber, iron, niacin, phosphorus, thiamine, Vit B6, Folate, B1, B2, B3, B6, Vitamin E, potassium, selenium and zinc. Brown Rice is rich in Carbohydrates, Protein and Enzymes. ...' http://www.probioticsforhealth.com/site/1351485/page/796242 'Why Brown-But Not White-Rice is One of the World's Healthiest Foods The difference between brown rice and white rice is not just color! A whole grain of rice has several layers. Only the outermost layer, the hull, is removed to produce what we call brown rice. This process is the least damaging to the nutritional value of the rice and avoids the unnecessary loss of nutrients that occurs with further processing. If brown rice is further milled to remove the bran and most of the germ layer, the result is a whiter rice, but also a rice that has lost many more nutrients. At this point, however, the rice is still unpolished, and it takes polishing to produce the white rice we are used to seeing. Polishing removes the aleurone layer of the grain-a layer filled with health-supportive, essential fats. Because these fats, once exposed to air by the refining process, are highly susceptible to oxidation, this layer is removed to extend the shelf life of the product. The resulting white rice is simply a refined starch that is largely bereft of its original nutrients. Our food ranking system qualified brown rice as an excellent source of manganese, and a good source of the minerals selenium and magnesium. The complete milling and polishing that converts brown rice into white rice destroys 67% of the vitamin B3, 80% of the vitamin B1, 90% of the vitamin B6, half of the manganese, half of the phosphorus, 60% of the iron, and all of the dietary fiber and essential fatty acids. By law in the United States, fully milled and polished white rice must be "enriched" with vitamins B1, B3, and iron. But the form of these nutrients when added back into the processed rice is not the same as in the original unprocessed version, and at least 11 lost nutrients are not replaced in any form even with rice "enrichment." Here are some of the ways in which the nutrients supplied by brown rice can make an important difference in your health: ..........' http://www.peertrainer.com/DFcaloriecounterB.aspx?id=5914
From: pearl on 13 Aug 2008 15:36
"pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message news:g7vcqh$q8q$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > <dh@.> wrote in message news:ieo5a4t4aqvltnfq55jan0srf9s1kkemtd(a)4ax.com... > > On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:16:51 +0100, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote: > > > > >Japan's diet stands on a foundation of rice." > > > > Rice is starch. Starch is just complex sugar, so they > > could do just as well or better by living on Captain Crunch. > > 'Brown rice is often referred to as Natures most perfect food. > It is the least processed rice and highest in nutritional value. Rich > in magnesium, copper, fiber, iron, niacin, phosphorus, thiamine, > Vit B6, Folate, B1, B2, B3, B6, Vitamin E, potassium, selenium and > zinc. Brown Rice is rich in Carbohydrates, Protein and Enzymes. > ..' > http://www.probioticsforhealth.com/site/1351485/page/796242 (niacin - B3, thiamine - B1)... > 'Why Brown-But Not White-Rice is One of the World's Healthiest Foods > > The difference between brown rice and white rice is not just color! A > whole grain of rice has several layers. Only the outermost layer, the hull, > is removed to produce what we call brown rice. This process is the least > damaging to the nutritional value of the rice and avoids the unnecessary > loss of nutrients that occurs with further processing. If brown rice is > further milled to remove the bran and most of the germ layer, the result > is a whiter rice, but also a rice that has lost many more nutrients. At this > point, however, the rice is still unpolished, and it takes polishing to > produce the white rice we are used to seeing. Polishing removes the > aleurone layer of the grain-a layer filled with health-supportive, essential > fats. Because these fats, once exposed to air by the refining process, are > highly susceptible to oxidation, this layer is removed to extend the shelf > life of the product. The resulting white rice is simply a refined starch that > is largely bereft of its original nutrients. > > Our food ranking system qualified brown rice as an excellent source > of manganese, and a good source of the minerals selenium and > magnesium. The complete milling and polishing that converts brown > rice into white rice destroys 67% of the vitamin B3, 80% of the vitamin > B1, 90% of the vitamin B6, half of the manganese, half of the > phosphorus, 60% of the iron, and all of the dietary fiber and essential > fatty acids. By law in the United States, fully milled and polished white > rice must be "enriched" with vitamins B1, B3, and iron. But the form > of these nutrients when added back into the processed rice is not the > same as in the original unprocessed version, and at least 11 lost > nutrients are not replaced in any form even with rice "enrichment." > > Here are some of the ways in which the nutrients supplied by brown > rice can make an important difference in your health: > .........' > http://www.peertrainer.com/DFcaloriecounterB.aspx?id=5914 This is a very informative and interesting article. Worth a read. |