Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
in [Vegetarian]
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From: crisology on 8 Aug 2008 06:33 On Aug 6, 2:51 pm, arch...(a)scfas.com wrote: > Those who by cultural choice or poverty wo eat mostly or all > plant foods (most people) > must supplement vit b12 by one means or another Those who eat plant diets for nutrition, as opposed to "cultural choice or poverty" may also need to supplement B12. You can consume raw/dirty meat or partially processed meat or raw, dirty plants or breast milk to naturally obtain B12 or just take a pill. Chris
From: archaea on 8 Aug 2008 08:17 > Those who by cultural choice or poverty wo eat mostly or all > plant foods (most people) > must supplement vit b12 by one means or another Right you are, about 1/3 of the world have no choice because poverty allows only a mostly plant food diet. "Those who eat plant diets for nutrition, as opposed to "cultural choice or poverty" may also need to supplement B12." Food choices for "nutrition" are cultural choices, as are those for any number of other reasons of choice as opposed to restriction because of poverty. Indeed those who by cultural motivation choose to eat mainly a plant based diet do require some attention to vit b12. "You can consume raw/dirty meat or partially processed meat or raw, dirty plants or breast milk to naturally obtain B12 or just take a pill." Correct, but incomplete. One can also consume soil and feces. There are some human groups whose principle vit b12 source is feces but they do not know it. Others consume animal parts and feces in their mostly plant based diet without knowing it also. Clean cooked animal sources and insects should be added to be even more complete. In many parts of the world insects are eaten routinely, in addition to the vit b12 being produced by the bacteria in their gut they have a very high level of quality protein humans can absorb easily.
From: Dutch on 8 Aug 2008 14:57 crisology wrote: > On Aug 6, 2:51 pm, arch...(a)scfas.com wrote: > >> Those who by cultural choice or poverty wo eat mostly or all >> plant foods (most people) >> must supplement vit b12 by one means or another > > Those who eat plant diets for nutrition, as opposed to "cultural > choice or poverty" may also need to supplement B12. Many people eat meat and dairy because for them those foods provide satisfaction and superior health support. In fact after 18 years as a vegetarian and no longer thriving on that diet, I had to overcome considerable conditioning in order to persuade myself to put some meat and dairy back into my diet. > You can consume raw/dirty meat or partially processed meat or raw, > dirty plants or breast milk to naturally obtain B12 or just take a > pill. A little fully cooked meat and/or pasteurized milk provide all the B12 one requires.
From: archaea on 8 Aug 2008 19:12 "This is the message Pearl originally responded to. She explained why supplements were now necessary to restore B12 that has been depleted. Ancestors adapted to B12 readily available in natural plant diet. You" Prehumans had access to animal based vit b12 for some millions of years. No need to speculate about a time when they ate plant foods only. By the time of modern humans, 100 k years ago, humans had been fully engaged in eating anything they could get their hands on for a long long time.
From: pearl on 9 Aug 2008 08:09
<archaea(a)scfas.com> wrote in message news:g7crqq$4s7$1(a)aioe.org... > The cycle for vit b12 is bacteria producing it as a waste product in a > foraging animal large gut to feces to soil and then return with feeding. > Because some foraging animals pass quantities of vit b12 as feces from the > large gut, they also eat feces so as to absorb it in the small gut. But then B12-producing bacteria would be present in the small gut. "Livestock" aren't given feces or gut bacteria to remedy or prevent B12 deficiency - they're routinely given cobalt and/or B12 directly. Consider that pristine ecosystems are naturally teeming with wildlife - excreting everywhere, and thus B12-producing bacteria and B12.. > That is the coreality of the situation. Plants do not provide vit b12 as > is the simple reality of the situation. Plants do not produce vit b12 as > a part of its metabolism. 'Solving a mystery that has puzzled scientists for decades, MIT and Harvard researchers have discovered the final piece of the synthesis pathway of vitamin B12--the only vitamin synthesized exclusively by microorganisms. B12, the most chemically complex of all vitamins, is essential for human health. Four Nobel Prizes have been awarded for research related to B12, but one fragment of the molecule remained an enigma--until now. The researchers report that a single enzyme synthesizes the fragment, and they outline a novel reaction mechanism that requires cannibalization of another vitamin. The work, which has roots in an MIT undergraduate teaching laboratory, "completes a piece of our understanding of a process very fundamental to life," said Graham Walker, MIT professor of biology and senior author of a paper on the work that will appear in the March 22 online edition of Nature. Vitamin B12 is produced by soil microbes that live in symbiotic relationships with plant roots. During the 1980s, an undergraduate research course taught by Walker resulted in a novel method for identifying mutant strains of a soil microbe that could not form a symbiotic relationship with a plant. Walker's team has now found that one such mutant has a defective form of an enzyme known as BluB that leaves it unable to synthesize B12. BluB catalyzes the formation of the B12 fragment known as DMB, which joins with another fragment, produced by a separate pathway, to form the vitamin. ... Still to be explored is the question of why soil bacteria synthesize B12 at all, Walker said. Soil microorganisms don't require B12 to survive, and the plants they attach themselves to don't need it either, so he speculates that synthesizing B12 may enable the bacteria to withstand "challenges" made by the plants during the formation of the symbiotic relationship. More than 30 genes are involved in vitamin B12 synthesis, and "that's a lot to carry around if you don't need to make it," Walker said. ...' http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/b12.html Mozafar's study shows that plants can take up B12 from the soil.. In addition, humans would naturally be foraging in and at soil-level.. |