Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
in [Vegetarian]
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From: pearl on 17 Aug 2008 10:25 <archaea(a)scfas.com> wrote in message news:g821f1$jhj$1(a)aioe.org... > > The info above does not appear at the link above. > > "Yes it does. What's "interesting and perplexing" is that the author of > this pa ge doesn't recognise the importance of "organically grown..many > high in cobalt."" > > I used the author as an exact cut and paste ""'Suzuki1" which does not > appear. Looking closer you mangled it. Rich coming from you. I didn't "mangle" anything. "1" indicates reference. '1. Suzuki H. Serum vitamin B12 levels in young vegans who eat brown rice. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol 1995;41:587-594' That should be: 'J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1995 Dec;41(6):587-94'. Yes, brown rice retaining bran can be a great source of dietary cobalt. > As I said the author of the quite extensive site is commended to anyone > wanting a middle of the road view about plant based dietary practices. > It finds no comfort in it for the radical food cultist. Rich coming from you. Are you still harrassing vegetarian Indians in the Indian/Hindu groups with your "India with relatively low meat use has the world's highest rate of diabetes and heart disease and related metabolic "degenerative" disorders." since it was pointed out to you that this is due to a genetic susceptibility? You absolutely refused to consider that until you were eventually forced to, and still repeating it here proves you an intellectually dishonest meatarian propagandist. From: hari.ku...(a)indero.com Date: 19 Feb 2008 15:35:35 GMT pearl : ... "Again:" "'.. a genetic susceptibility, mediated through elevated levels of lipoprotein(a) {Lp(a)}, which magnifies the adverse effects of lifestyle factors associated with urbanization, affluence, and changes in diet. .....' http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijc/vol1n2/cadi.xml" And the lifestyle over abundance of meat consumption increasing risk of genetic disposition applies no less to n. american then it does for india with other lifestyle risks and genetic dispositions and little or no meat eaters; as it relates to the rate of chronic disorders. Bottom line, either high meat eaters or low/no meat eaters can and do evoke genetic disposition for increased risk for disorders. " I said: "Fatty foods include dairy and eggs, as well as meat and fish. " and then you disintegrated into a blithering evasive name-calling bot. > The info he provided about the specific individual contents still stands > as a great caution and refutation. Why didn't you also offer the site > author's evaluation, that would have been more honest and useful. Rich coming from you. There was nothing compelling about the author's evaluation, but I'm sure it gave you momentary solace. > For one who is interested in a complete scientific evaluation > and not a cherry picked virsion is here in his remarks about the info and > why he is not greatly moved about its claims: > > None of the many measurements between the vegans and 4 nonvegan > controls were significantly different, including serum B12, MCV, and > iron indicators. MMA and homocysteine levels were not measured. Some > suggestions as to how the vegans got their B12 are: > * From nori or the other seaweeds. The nori was most likely dried. > * Small amounts of B12 from B12 uptake or contamination of plants > grown in manure. > * B12 from their mother's stores. > > These results are both interesting and perplexing. The serum B12 > levels are easy to explain as possibly being inactive B12 analogues. 'B12 analogues surfaced in research in the early '50s-and not in pickles or tempeh. In 1955 British workers demonstrated analogue presence in dairy foods. By the 1970s it was clear animal foods contained abundant analogues. Says Gray, "It's a big mistake to think only plant foods like seaweed and algae have analogues. The stuff is ubiquitous." Asked what factors are identified as causing increased analogues, Gray cites various environmental factors: heavy metals and chlorine in municipal water, soil mineral imbalances and deficiencies, and food refining, especially since niacin and riboflavin are required for bacterial synthesis of true B12. Moreover, says Gray, "evidence, though incomplete, suggests B12 content of both animal and vegetable foods is on a downward trend." As example, Gray points out in 1968 beef liver samples (tested with O. malhamensis) yielded a B12 content of 122 mcg per 100 grams. Twenty years later Specker found only 3.9 mcg/100 grams in beef liver (her mean on four tests)-approximately 95 percent less! Gray also noted non-vegetarian infants used as "controls" by Specker showed UMMA excretion - a measure of possible B12 deficiency - that were "horrendously elevated." Below 4 is considered normal, and "controls" registered over 20. Alarmed by the beef liver and infant UMMA finding, Gray contacted a California lab to run tests using O. malhamensis. The lab's head, Dr. John Fukuoaka, purchased the foods and did repeat tests himself. Tested were Swiss cheese, chicken breast and beef heart. Tests in the '60s showed B12 levels (respectively) of 1.71, 0.5 and 14.2 mcg/100 g. Yet Dr. Fukuoaka's 1989 tests failed to reveal any traces of B12 whatsoever! Gray also points out the Dutch and American "vegetarian B12" studies' tests of vegetarian foods can't be taken at face value because of the testing method used, and also the wide variability in quality that certainly exists in different brands of the same food. Tempeh tested in the van den Berg (Dutch) and Specker (American) studies showed values termed "negligible" in by Specker/Miller. Yet, when Dr. Fukuoaka tested tempeh from Washington's Turtle Island Soy Dairy, it weighed in at a robust 4.6 mcg/100g! Thus, while eating seaweeds, tempeh and certain other foods may place higher on the B12 spectrum than the panic suggested, that spectrum on the whole may be declining at a precipitous rate. http://www.championtrees.org/yarrow/whereb12.htm. 'Animal Foods Low in Vitamin B-12 - Animal foods commonly believed to be high in B-12 may actually be low or deficient. In lab tests commissioned by nutrition researcher Sylvia Ruth Gray in 1989 and 1990, no identifiable B-12 was found in beef liver, Swiss cheese, and chicken breast and only 2.19 mcg in beef heart. In the 1960s, similar tests showed these foods contained 122, 1.71, .5, and 14.2 mcg respectively. In contrast, macrobiotic/vegetarian foods measured higher than the animal foods. Sea vegetables measured up to 9 mcg, tempeh to 4 mcg, and miso to .7. Gray attributed the sharp decline in B-12 levels to environmental pollution and modern chemical agriculture, especially the depletion of cobalt in soils which promotes B-12 synthesis. Source: Nathaniel Mead, "Where's the B-12?", Solstice 39:10-15, 1990; "Here's the B-12," Solstice 40:10-13, 1990; "Corrections on Vitamin B-12," Solstice 42:5-7, 1990; Sylvia Ruth Gray, "B-12 Update," Solstice 43:5-7, 1990; Sylvia Ruth Gray, "B-12 Update," Solstice 44:6-8, 1990. http://www.macrobiotics.nl/encyclopedia/encyclopedia_v.html 'Continuous use of inorganic fertilizers mainly containing major nutrients NPK in large quantities and neglecting organic and bio-fertilizers paved the way for deterioration of soil health and in turn ill effects on plants, human being and cattle. The adverse effects of using fertilizers are explained below. ... Development of soil acidification and alkalization due to continuous use of acidic (NH4 Cl (NH2 ) SO4 etc.) and basic (NANO3 ) (CAN basic slag etc.) fertilizers causing imbalance in nutrients availability to crops and affecting activities of beneficial micro organisms. ...' http://www.manage.gov.in/managelib/faculty/manohari.htm 'There were indications that trace element deficiencies in Indian soils might be comparatively widespread with intensification of agriculture. ...' http://www.ipipotash.org/udocs/Potassium%20Research%20in%20India%20Past%20and%20Future.pdf > But it is particularly impressive that the eight-year-olds were doing > well given that their mothers had been vegan for some time, supposedly > without B12-fortified foods or supplements. Unfortunately, many vegan > children have not had the same positive results and until more is > known about the GS children's diets, this study should be considered > an unsolved mystery. > If these children were my own, I would make sure they started to get > at least a modest B12 supplement to ensure their continue good health. The serum B12 levels can't be explained away as B12 analogues, as acknowledged by your author - "it is particularly impressive that the eight-year-olds were doing well given that their mothers had been vegan for some time". There wasn't a single case of symptoms of B12 deficiency in these vegans, as we read in the available abstract: 1: J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 1995 Dec;41(6):587-94. Links Serum vitamin B12 levels in young vegans who eat brown rice. Suzuki H. Department of Internal Medicine, Social Insurance Institute of Nagahori, Clinic, Osaka, Japan. A nutritional analysis was conducted on the dietary intake of a group of 6 vegan children aged 7 to 14 who had been living on a vegan diet including brown rice for from 4 to 10 years, and on that of an age-matched control group. In addition, their serum vitamin B12 levels and other data (red blood cell count, hematocrit, hemoglobin, etc.) were determined in the laboratory. In vegans' diets, 2-4 g of nori (dried laver), which contained B12, were consumed daily. Not a single case of symptoms due to B12 deficiency was found. There were no statistically significant differences between the two groups with respect to any of the examination data, including B12 levels (p < 0.05). Therefore, consumption of nori may keep vegans from suffering B12 deficiency. PMID: 8926531 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8926531 The B12-Cobalt Connection http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/b12coblt.htm |