Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
in [Vegetarian]
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From: pearl on 13 Aug 2008 17:19 <archaea(a)scfas.com> wrote in message news:g7tdir$qu6$1(a)aioe.org... > > South india > > where traditional farming methods prevail and mostly plants are used > have > > high levels of vi= b12 deficiency. > > "Unsupported claims. If you're standing by your "high levels of b12 > deficiency" (you've yet to provide some evidence, and repeatedly refused > to address the issue of widespread under-nutrition anyway) now provide > proof that the following doesn't apply to south India:" > > "More than 60percent of the women had low levels of vitamin B12" > > snip > > "Indian mothers have been shown to be deficient in vitamin B12. This > vitamin > is required in very small amounts, about 2-4 micrograms per day. > > Non-vegetarian foods and dairy products are rich sources of this vitamin. As already pointed out more than once, Indians consume dairy. But.. 'WOMEN ARE MALNOURISHED The exceptionally high rates of malnutrition in South Asia are rooted deeply in the soil of inequality between men and women. ... "Gender disparities in nutrition are evident from infancy to adulthood. In fact, gender has been the most statistically significant determinant of malnutrition among young children and malnutrition is a frequent direct or underlying cause of death among girls below age 5. Girls are breast- fed less frequently and for shorter durations in infancy; in childhood and adulthood, males are fed first and better. Adult women consume approximately 1,000 fewer calories per day than men according to one estimate from Punjab. Comparison of household dietary intake studies in different parts of the country shows that nutritional equity between males and females is lower in northern than in southern states." Nutritional deprivation has two major consequences for women: they never reach their full growth potential and anaemia. Both are risk factors in pregnancy, with anaemia ranging from 40-50 percent in urban areas to 50-70 percent in rural areas. This condition complicates childbearing and result in maternal and infant deaths, and low birth weight infants. ...' http://www.thp.org/reports/indiawom.htm#m1 > Most Indians are vegetarian for religious reasons or because of > socio-economic reasons." Most people get someone else to kill, as humans are not true predators it's not in our nature to kill and we find it upsetting. Most people have been influenced to regard meat-eating as an indication of favourable socio-economic status, and so eat carcasses of dead animals for the positive self-image... News Flash: Some Indians in extreme poverty are eating rats. But why would this be news-worthy if humans naturally "eat everything they can get their hands on"? Please explain, hari. > Under-nutrition usually relates to level of caloric intake, while > mal-nutrition relates to not having the proper things in the diet. Both > could affect vit b12. There you go. > The presumption that eating more of a diet that has > mal-nutrition seems dubious. The green revolution aided the > under-nutrition and india became self sufficient in grain production. > But having more of a diet with little vitt b12 does not help. 1 + 1 = 1? > Milk is the > largest source of vit b12 but only if not boiled or fermented. > > As for the green revolution in your last point, I nor anyone can prove a > negative. Farmers are very practical people. it is difficult to consider > they would not use a free manure source to reduce howmuch fertilizer they > would have to buy. You could prove a positive by supporting your claim with evidence, but with your "reduce how much fertilizer they would have to buy" it looks like you've backed off from your statement "South india where traditional farming methods prevail and mostly plants are used have high levels of vi= b12 deficiency." > But let us say I'm 100 percent wrong in the india example. What difference > in the basic topic would it make? You seem to be going for the quibble > value alone again. Plants are not a source of vit b12, bacteria are and > there was no golden past era of farming that changes that. 'Continuous use of inorganic fertilizers mainly containing major nutrients NPK in large quantities and neglecting organic and bio-fertilizers paved the way for deterioration of soil health and in turn ill effects on plants, human being and cattle. The adverse effects of using fertilizers are explained below. ... Development of soil acidification and alkalization due to continuous use of acidic (NH4 Cl (NH2 ) SO4 etc.) and basic (NANO3 ) (CAN basic slag etc.) fertilizers causing imbalance in nutrients availability to crops and affecting activities of beneficial micro organisms. ...' http://www.manage.gov.in/managelib/faculty/manohari.htm 'There were indications that trace element deficiencies in Indian soils might be comparatively widespread with intensification of agriculture. ...' http://www.ipipotash.org/udocs/Potassium%20Research%20in%20India%20Past%20and%20Future.pdf Go back to my first post in this thread. Do read it this time. > It looks like > you are more interested in ego pointsthen really an ernest look at the > topic. > > I really have no interest to play in that sandbox.
From: archaea on 14 Aug 2008 08:37 "'Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours etc onto other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy and doing something about it (learning about oneself can be painful), and to distract and divert attention away from themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this, every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves." And this is not limited to any one group nor side of a question and it can be expressed in many guises.
From: archaea on 14 Aug 2008 09:19 > "More than 60percent of the women had low levels of vitamin B12" > > snip > > "Indian mothers have been shown to be deficient in vitamin B12. This > vitamin > is required in very small amounts, about 2-4 micrograms per day. > > Non-vegetarian foods and dairy products are rich sources of this vitamin. "As already pointed out more than once, Indians consume dairy. But.." But not enough of the right kind. Food preparation often involves boiling it or fermentation which destroys the vit b12. Milk as a beverage is little used. "'WOMEN ARE MALNOURISHED The exceptionally high rates of malnutrition in South Asia are rooted deeply in the soil of inequality between men and women." Gender politics have nothing to do with the nutritional reality. ""The present cross-sectional and interventional study was carried out to assess the incidence of vitamin B12 / vitamin D deficiency in male office executives in the tropical city of Mumbai, India." snip "The results revealed 65% executives with vitamin B12 deficiency (less than 193 pg/ml) and 28% executives with vitamin D deficiency (less than 7.6 ng/ml)." Note the 60 percent rate the same in men and women and these men are rich enough to eat all of any thing they choose. "Under-nutrition" is not the source, mal-nutrition is as regards vit b12. To the degree one withdraws from the vbactreria cycle producing vit b12 the more likely as in the men and women above that levels will be too low. That is the science reality. > Most Indians are vegetarian for religious reasons or because of > socio-economic reasons." "Most people get someone else to kill, as humans are not true predators it's not in our nature to kill and we find it upsetting. Most people have been influenced to regard meat-eating as an indication of favourable socio-economic status, and so eat carcasses of dead animals for the positive self-image..." Food cultist politics, ranting?, can be no less silly. The men and women above chose because of religion to eat mostly plants and the vit b12 problems was a consequence. That is the scientific reality. "News Flash: Some Indians in extreme poverty are eating rats. But why would this be news-worthy if humans naturally "eat everything they can get their hands on"? Please explain, hari." I thought of you when reading that article. It is a perfect example, the author suggested all adopt the tradition of some ethnic groups and eat whatever is at hand, in this case rats. Just as you suggest eating animal products is but mere conditioning, one can say not using rats is equally so. The ethnic groups do eat anything they can get their hands on. There are hundreds of ethnic groups in india with a great range in dietary traditions. Those who choose to use mostly plants withdraw themselves from the vit b12 producing cycle with the problems as above. Those ethnic groups at hand have no vit b12 problems.
From: pearl on 14 Aug 2008 09:21 "Rudy Canoza" <pipes(a)thedismalscience.noot> wrote in message news:R-qdnXPKs_U-yD7VnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d(a)earthlink.com... > pearl wrote: > > "Rudy Canoza" <pipes(a)thedismalscience.noot> wrote in message news:ztadnXP6zs1PoT7VnZ2dnUVZ_sjinZ2d(a)earthlink.com... ... > >> Rice is starch, and starch is sugar, and that is *INADEQUATE* for human > >> nutrition. > > > > 'Bullies project > > Stick it No one's interested in your vile fantasies, you sick jerk. > Rice is *not* a "perfect" food in > anyway - virtually no protein, seriously lacking in many important vitamins. Not just starch then, as you stated above. You're as clueless as dh@. 'Rice is a staple food for nearly one-half of the world's population. ... For laboring adults, milled rice alone could meet the daily carbohydrate and protein needs for sustenance although it is low in riboflavin and thiamine content. ...' http://www.cambridge.org/us/books/kiple/rice.htm 'Why Brown-But Not White-Rice is One of the World's Healthiest Foods The difference between brown rice and white rice is not just color! A whole grain of rice has several layers. Only the outermost layer, the hull, is removed to produce what we call brown rice. This process is the least damaging to the nutritional value of the rice and avoids the unnecessary loss of nutrients that occurs with further processing. If brown rice is further milled to remove the bran and most of the germ layer, the result is a whiter rice, but also a rice that has lost many more nutrients. At this point, however, the rice is still unpolished, and it takes polishing to produce the white rice we are used to seeing. Polishing removes the aleurone layer of the grain-a layer filled with health-supportive, essential fats. Because these fats, once exposed to air by the refining process, are highly susceptible to oxidation, this layer is removed to extend the shelf life of the product. The resulting white rice is simply a refined starch that is largely bereft of its original nutrients. Our food ranking system qualified brown rice as an excellent source of manganese, and a good source of the minerals selenium and magnesium. The complete milling and polishing that converts brown rice into white rice destroys 67% of the vitamin B3, 80% of the vitamin B1, 90% of the vitamin B6, half of the manganese, half of the phosphorus, 60% of the iron, and all of the dietary fiber and essential fatty acids. By law in the United States, fully milled and polished white rice must be "enriched" with vitamins B1, B3, and iron. But the form of these nutrients when added back into the processed rice is not the same as in the original unprocessed version, and at least 11 lost nutrients are not replaced in any form even with rice "enrichment." Here are some of the ways in which the nutrients supplied by brown rice can make an important difference in your health: ..........' http://www.peertrainer.com/DFcaloriecounterB.aspx?id=5914
From: pearl on 14 Aug 2008 11:05
<archaea(a)scfas.com> wrote in message news:g81bd9$366$1(a)aioe.org... > > "More than 60percent of the women had low levels of vitamin B12" > > > > snip > > > > "Indian mothers have been shown to be deficient in vitamin B12. This > > vitamin > > is required in very small amounts, about 2-4 micrograms per day. > > > > Non-vegetarian foods and dairy products are rich sources of this > vitamin. > > > "As already pointed out more than once, Indians consume dairy. But.." > > But not enough of the right kind. Food preparation often involves boiling > it or fermentation which destroys the vit b12. Milk as a beverage is > little used. Then cooking also destroys B12 in animal flesh and in/on plant foods. > "'WOMEN ARE MALNOURISHED > > The exceptionally high rates of malnutrition in South Asia are rooted > deeply in the soil of inequality between men and women." > > Gender politics have nothing to do with the nutritional reality. You can't say that. 'One study found anaemia in over 95 percent of girls ages 6-14 in Calcutta, around 67 percent in the Hyderabad area, 73 percent in the New Delhi area, and about 18 percent in the Madras area. This study states, "The prevalence of anaemia among women ages 15-24 and 25-44 years follows similar patterns and levels. http://www.thp.org/reports/indiawom.htm > ""The present cross-sectional and interventional study was carried out to > assess the incidence of vitamin B12 / vitamin D deficiency in male office > executives in the tropical city of Mumbai, India." > > snip > > "The results revealed 65% executives with vitamin B12 deficiency (less > than > 193 pg/ml) and 28% executives with vitamin D deficiency (less than 7.6 > ng/ml)." > > Note the 60 percent rate the same in men and women and these men are rich > enough to eat all of any thing they choose. "Under-nutrition" is not the > source, mal-nutrition is as regards vit b12. > > To the degree one withdraws from the vbactreria cycle producing vit b12 > the more likely as in the men and women above that levels will be too low. > That is the science reality. The science reality is modern farming methods adversely affecting B12-producing microorganisms and availability of trace elements including cobalt. In addition.. washing, processing, and cooking. > > Most Indians are vegetarian for religious reasons or because of > > socio-economic reasons." > > "Most people get someone else to kill, as humans are not true predators > it's not in our nature to kill and we find it upsetting. > > Most people have been influenced to regard meat-eating as an indication of > favourable socio-economic status, and so eat carcasses of dead animals for > the positive self-image..." > > Food cultist politics, ranting?, can be no less silly. No. It's the plain truth. > The men and women > above chose because of religion to eat mostly plants and the vit b12 > problems was a consequence. That is the scientific reality. The scientific reality is modern farming methods adversely affecting B12-producing microorganisms and availability of trace elements including cobalt. In addition.. washing, processing, and cooking. > "News Flash: Some Indians in extreme poverty are eating rats. But why > would this be news-worthy if humans naturally "eat everything they can get > their hands on"? Please explain, hari." > > I thought of you when reading that article. It is a perfect example, the > author suggested all adopt the tradition of some ethnic groups and eat > whatever is at hand, in this case rats. > > Just as you suggest eating animal products is but mere conditioning, Very good. > one > can say not using rats is equally so. The ethnic groups do eat anything > they can get their hands on. There are hundreds of ethnic groups in india > with a great range in dietary traditions. Those who choose to use mostly > plants withdraw themselves from the vit b12 producing cycle with the > problems as above. Those ethnic groups at hand have no vit b12 problems. 'Suzuki1 (1995, Japan) studied 6 vegan children eating a genmai- saishoku (GS) diet, which is based on high intakes of brown rice and contains plenty of sea vegetables, including 2-4 g of nori per day ("dried laver"); as well as hijiki, wakame, and kombu. The foods are organically grown and many are high in cobalt (buckwheat, adzuki beans, kidney beans, shiitake, hijiki). Serum B12 levels of the children are shown: Results of Suzuki.1 age(yrs) years vegan sB12 7.1 4.4 520 7.7 4.4 720 8.6A 8.6 480 8.8A 8.8 300 12.7 10 320 14.6 10 320 average 443 (� 164) A - Exclusively breast-fed until 6 months old. Mothers had been vegan for 9.6 and 6.5 yrs prior to conception. Both mothers consumed 2 g of nori per day. ...' http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/plant |