Some real scientific information on raw vegan diets
in [Vegetarian]
|
From: pearl on 5 Aug 2008 10:21 "Dragonblaze" <dragonblaze(a)apexmail.com> wrote in message news:effe720f-94fc-49ec-b463-0ae99e0ff472(a)2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com... On Aug 5, 1:40 am, Rupert <rupertmccal...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > I think that dietitians agree that any vegan diet should be > accompanied by Vitamin B12 supplements, regardless of whether it is a > "raw food" diet or not. I myself was recently found to have Vitamin > B12 levels below the normal range and my doctor said that that was an > "expected outcome" of following a vegan diet without taking Vitamin > B12 supplements. (I usually take supplements but I was a bit forgetful > about taking them over the last year or so.) I just wonder how those who claim vegan diet - and especially raw vegan diet - is the natural diet for humans explain this problem. In my thinking any diet that is natural for a species should not require supplements, but all the necessary vitamins and micronutrients should be available from the diet. ---- Read this: The B12-Cobalt Connection http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/b12coblt.htm Note that "livestock" are *supplemented* with cobalt and/or Vit. B12. (And grass is the natural diet of grazing ruminant herbivores, isn't it.). Might as well (better to*) take a supplement directly yourself instead. How conventional industrial agriculture compounds the problem - 'Mineral content: This may be the most important nutritional difference between organic and regular produce since heavy use of fertilizer inhibits absorption of some minerals, which are likely to be at lower levels to begin with in soils that have been abused. This may be caused in part by the lack of beneficial mycorrhizae fungi on the roots since high levels of fertilizer tend to kill them. Standard diets tend to be low in various minerals, resulting in a variety of problems including osteoporosis. ...' http://math.ucsd.edu/~ebender/Health%20&%20Nutrition/Foods/organic.html Emphasis added - 'Suzuki1 (1995, Japan) studied 6 vegan children eating a genmai- saishoku (GS) diet, which is based on high intakes of brown rice and contains plenty of sea vegetables, including 2-4 g of nori per day ("dried laver"); as well as hijiki, wakame, and kombu. *The foods are organically grown and many are high in cobalt* (buckwheat, adzuki beans, kidney beans, shiitake, hijiki). Serum B12 levels of the children are shown: Results of Suzuki.1 age(yrs) years vegan sB12 7.1 4.4 520 7.7 4.4 720 8.6A 8.6 480 8.8A 8.8 300 12.7 10 320 14.6 10 320 average 443 (� 164) A - Exclusively breast-fed until 6 months old. Mothers had been vegan for 9.6 and 6.5 yrs prior to conception. Both mothers consumed 2 g of nori per day. ...' http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/plant * 'Are You Vitamin B12 Deficient? Nearly two-fifths of the U.S. population may be flirting with marginal vitamin B12 status-that is, if a careful look at nearly 3,000 men and women in the ongoing Framingham (Massachusetts) Offspring Study is any indication. Researchers found that 39 percent of the volunteers have plasma B12 levels in the "low normal" range- below 258 picomoles per liter (pmol/L). While this is well above the currently accepted deficiency level of 148 pmol/L, some people exhibit neurological symptoms at the upper level of the deficiency range, explains study leader Katherine L. Tucker. She is a nutritional epidemiologist at the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University in Boston. "I think there's a lot of undetected vitamin B12 deficiency out there," says Tucker. She noted that nearly 9 percent of the study population fell below the current deficiency level. And more than 16 percent fell below 185 pmol/L. "Many people may be deficient at this level," she says. "There is some question as to what the clinical cutoff for deficiency should be." Deficiency can cause a type of anemia marked by fewer but larger red blood cells. It can also cause walking and balance disturbances, a loss of vibration sensation, confusion, and, in advanced cases, dementia. The body requires B12 to make the protective coating surrounding the nerves. So inadequate B12 can expose nerves to damage. Tucker and colleagues wanted to get a sense of B12 levels spanning the adult population because most previous studies have focused on the elderly. That age group was thought to be at higher risk for deficiency. The researchers also expected to find some connection between dietary intake and plasma levels, even though other studies found no association. Some of the results were surprising. The youngest group-the 26 to 49 year olds-had about the same B12 status as the oldest group- 65 and up. "We thought that low concentrations of B12 would increase with age," says Tucker. "But we saw a high prevalence of low B12 even among the youngest group." The good news is that for many people, eating more fortified cereals and dairy products can improve B12 status almost as much as taking supplements containing the vitamin. Supplement use dropped the percentage of volunteers in the danger zone (plasma B12 below 185 pmol/L) from 20 percent to 8. Eating fortified cereals five or more times a week or being among the highest third for dairy intake reduced, by nearly half, the percentage of volunteers in that zone-from 23 and 24 percent, respectively, to 12 and 13 percent. The researchers found no association between plasma B12 and meat, poultry, and fish intake, even though these foods supply the bulk of B12 in the diet. "It's not because people aren't eating enough meat," Tucker says. "The vitamin isn't getting absorbed." The vitamin is tightly bound to proteins in meat and dairy products and requires high acidity to cut it loose. As we age, we lose the acid-secreting cells in the stomach. But what causes poor absorption in younger adults? Tucker speculates that the high use of antacids may contribute. But why absorption from dairy products appears to be better than from meats is a question that needs more research. Fortified cereals are a different story. She says the vitamin is sprayed on during processing and is "more like what we get in supplements." By Judy McBride, Agricultural Research Service Information Staff. This research is part of Human Nutrition, an ARS National Program (#107) described on the World Wide Web. Katherine L. Tucker is at the Jean Mayer USDA-ARS Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University, 711 Washington St., Boston, MA 02111; ... "Are You Vitamin B12 Deficient?" was published in the August 2000 issue of Agricultural Research magazine. http://www.epic4health.com/areyouvitb12.html A couple more points to ponder here.. "As we age, we lose the acid-secreting cells in the stomach." Is it therefore natural for your omnivorous human to become B12-deficient with age? "high use of antacids" Is it's natural for humans to suffer from acid-indigestion? Any idea which "foods" are associated with this condition?
From: archaea on 5 Aug 2008 10:52 S. asians who came to n. america started showing up at doctors with vit b12 problems. It was found that legal guidelines covering how many animal parts were allowed in the plant food supply in s. asia was much greater then in n. america. The greatly reduced animal parts they consumed in the plant food supply did not provide the same amount of vit b12 they consumed from animal parts in their food in s. asia. Bacteria produce all vit b12 that in the end by way mostly of animal sources enters the human diet. Because truely pure vegan diets are very rare most vegitarians who consume milk and/or fish have no problems. Vegans who reside in n. america and other places with control over animal parts in plant food supply would best supplement.
From: pearl on 5 Aug 2008 12:24 <archaea(a)scfas.com> wrote in message news:g79peg$bo6$1(a)aioe.org... > S. asians who came to n. america started showing up at doctors with vit > b12 problems. It was found that legal guidelines covering how many animal > parts were allowed in the plant food supply in s. asia was much greater > then in n. america. The greatly reduced animal parts they consumed in the > plant food supply did not provide the same amount of vit b12 they consumed > from animal parts in their food in s. asia. > > Bacteria produce all vit b12 that in the end by way mostly of animal > sources enters the human diet. Because truely pure vegan diets are very > rare most vegitarians who consume milk and/or fish have no problems. > Vegans who reside in n. america and other places with control over animal > parts in plant food supply would best supplement. B12-producing bacteria are (naturally) abundant in soil, and require the trace element cobalt to synthesize B12 - not insects or animal systems, but.. 'According to "Trace Elements in Agriculture," the cobalt range for U.S. soils in 1969 was 30 and 50 ppb - well below the ruminant requirement and "possibly enough to slow legume growth and turn leaves yellow prematurely," says Maurice Cook, PhD, professor of Soil Science at North Carolina State Univ. In Micronutrients in Agriculture, Drs. Kubota and Allaway state, "Forage grasses and cereal grains frequently lack required concentrations of cobalt, and ruminant diets based on grasses or grains require cobalt supplements in most areas of the U.S. ...' http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/b12coblt.htm Which of course applies to cobalt content in plant-foods consumed by humans, too. Please read the above article and my previous post.
From: archaea on 5 Aug 2008 13:10 > Bacteria produce all vit b12 that in the end by way mostly of animal > sources enters the human diet. Because truely pure vegan diets are very > rare most vegitarians who consume milk and/or fish have no problems. > Vegans who reside in n. america and other places with control over animal > parts in plant food supply would best supplement. B12-producing bacteria are (naturally) abundant in soil, and require the "trace element cobalt to synthesize B12 - not insects or animal systems," Irrelevant, the question is how does it find its way into any human food source. In the case of the s. asians it was by way of animal parts in their plant food supply. Here is a bit about food sources of vit b12: Food sources Only bacteria can synthesize vitamin B[12]. Vitamin B[12] is present in animal products such as meat, poultry, fish (including shellfish), and to a lesser extent milk, but it is not generally present in plant products or yeast (1). Fresh pasteurized milk contains 0.9 mcg per cup and is an important source of vitamin B[12] for some vegetarians (6). Those vegetarians who eat no animal products need supplemental vitamin B[12] to meet their requirements. Also, individuals over the age of 50 should obtain their vitamin B[12] in supplements or fortified foods like fortified cereal because of the increased likelihood of food-bound vitamin B[12] malabsorption.
From: pearl on 5 Aug 2008 15:39
<archaea(a)scfas.com> wrote in message news:g7a1hu$tqa$1(a)aioe.org... > > Bacteria produce all vit b12 that in the end by way mostly of animal > > sources enters the human diet. Because truely pure vegan diets are very > > rare most vegitarians who consume milk and/or fish have no problems. > > Vegans who reside in n. america and other places with control over > animal > > parts in plant food supply would best supplement. > > B12-producing bacteria are (naturally) abundant in soil, and require the > "trace element cobalt to synthesize B12 - not insects or animal systems," > > Irrelevant, the question is how does it find its way into any human food > source. Relevant. 1. On foods (environmental 'contamination'). 2. In foods (see http://www.css.cornell.edu/courses/190/abstr/boshart2.htm ), and 3. Synthesized by enteric bacteria resident in the human small intestine (where Vit. B12 is absorbed). -- Provided there's adequate levels of cobalt in the soil, and, organic farming methods instead of ag-chem. Since cobalt levels can be low and the soil saturated with chem's, it's indeed prudent and recommended we take a B12 supplement. > In the case of the s. asians it was by way of animal parts in > their plant food supply. Show us the research? > Here is a bit about food sources of vit b12: > > Food sources > > Only bacteria can synthesize vitamin B[12]. Vitamin B[12] is present > in animal products such as meat, poultry, fish (including shellfish), > and to a lesser extent milk, but it is not generally present in plant > products or yeast (1). Fresh pasteurized milk contains 0.9 mcg per cup > and is an important source of vitamin B[12] for some vegetarians (6). > Those vegetarians who eat no animal products need supplemental vitamin > B[12] to meet their requirements. Also, individuals over the age of 50 > should obtain their vitamin B[12] in supplements or fortified foods > like fortified cereal because of the increased likelihood of > food-bound vitamin B[12] malabsorption. Again, do you think it's natural for humans to become B12-deficient with age? Why are you ignoring the fact that "livestock" are routinely given B12/cobalt? |