From: Mark Probert on
marcia wrote:
> Vaccine-man wrote:
>>> At
>>> most, vaccines may have impacted 3.5% of the decline in infectious
>>> diseases, while other factors played a far greater role.
>> Reference, please? In addition to smallpox, polio is nearly eradicated
>> (despite recent setbacks) and deaths from measles have declined by half
>> in the last 6 or 7 years because of vaccination programs.
>
> I got both mumps and chicken pox as a kid, and so did many of the other
> children in my community. My children have never even *heard* of mumps,
> because no one they know has ever gotten it. They have heard of chicken
> pox, but only because one or two of their friends have gotten mild
> cases.
>
> What, other than vaccine, could possibly account for such a dramatic
> decline in mumps and chicken pox cases (in the US, at least) during my
> lifetime?
>

Many of the anti-vacs peg the decline as beginning in around 1955.

I note that this was the year the first McDonald's opened under Ray
Kroc, and, clearly, that was the cause.

I am using pure anti-vac logic in this analysis.

From: vernon on

"Vaccine-man" <ziggittes(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1146772597.781665.150310(a)g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> You have two groups of hamsters. One group is immunized with a
> genetically-engineered yellow fever vaccine virus (17D) that has West
> Nile virus antigen, while the other is unimmunized. After a few weeks,
> all the hamsters are infected with 10^4 TCID50 of WNV NY385-99. Half of
> the unvaccinated hamsters die from WN encephalitis, while none of the
> vaccinated hamsters show any sign of disease and, of course, none die.
> How do you interpret this?
>

Watch your hamster. Don't become a hamster.


From: Vaccine-man on
PeterB wrote:

> Dr. Tom Mack, of USC, a well-known scientist with first-hand experience
> studying smallpox in Pakistan during the 1960s, said that endemic
> smallpox vanished from the US not because of herd immunity through
> vaccine, but as a result of ongoing economic development.

He said no such thing. He said that economic development contributed to
the end of smallpox. He did not use the word "vanished". Here's what he
said:

"Disappearance was facilitated, not impeded, by economic development."

T. Mack. A Different View of Smallpox and Vaccination. NEJM. 348:460.
2003.

> He also said
> that mortality rates have been skewed by over-weighting of data series
> with children, who are more vulnerable to the disease. He pegs the
> actual case mortality rate at closer to 1-in-7, saying infection rates
> would have declined on their own (just more slowly) without
> intervention programs.

Please provide the reference to where you saw this. Here's what I have
from him:

"Dr. Snyder is also correct; pre-exposure vaccination is highly
effective, and post-exposure vaccination is at best of limited
effectiveness. Unfortunately the case fatality rate for variola major
among unvaccinated persons is likely to be closer to 50 percent than
22.5 percent."

Clearly, Dr. Mack was an advocate of smallpox immunization. This is
from the reference you provided (which are a series of letters to the
editor).

>
> (1) Letai, A. G., Snyder, K. M., Fett, J. D., Worthington, M. G., Ross,
> J. J., Neff, J. M., Lane, J. M., Fulginiti, V. A., Milton, D. K.,
> Bozzette, S. A., Boer, R., Mack, T., Sepkowitz, K. A. (2003). Smallpox
> and Smallpox Vaccination. NEJM 348: 1920-1925

From: marcia on

Mark Probert wrote:
> > What, other than vaccine, could possibly account for such a dramatic
> > decline in mumps and chicken pox cases (in the US, at least) during my
> > lifetime?
> >
>
> Many of the anti-vacs peg the decline as beginning in around 1955.
>
> I note that this was the year the first McDonald's opened under Ray
> Kroc, and, clearly, that was the cause.
>
> I am using pure anti-vac logic in this analysis.

Nice logic. :) I'm completely bemused by this whole anti-vac movement.
I was aware of it, but assumed it mainly consisted of anxious mothers
who just needed some reassurance and education.

Boy, have my eyes been opened here. :D

From: Mark Probert on
marcia wrote:
> Mark Probert wrote:
>>> What, other than vaccine, could possibly account for such a dramatic
>>> decline in mumps and chicken pox cases (in the US, at least) during my
>>> lifetime?
>>>
>> Many of the anti-vacs peg the decline as beginning in around 1955.
>>
>> I note that this was the year the first McDonald's opened under Ray
>> Kroc, and, clearly, that was the cause.
>>
>> I am using pure anti-vac logic in this analysis.
>
> Nice logic. :) I'm completely bemused by this whole anti-vac movement.
> I was aware of it, but assumed it mainly consisted of anxious mothers
> who just needed some reassurance and education.
>
> Boy, have my eyes been opened here. :D

You have not seen anything, yet.