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From: acoftil on 19 Mar 2007 15:01
On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:10:27 GMT, Health Concerns
<health742concerns(a)earthlink.net> wrote:

>I am very worried about a young friend of mine. She is a 20 YO college
>student who is very intelligent, well-spoken, and in many ways a super
>achiever. If you looked at her resume of achievements, and if you hadn't
>spent the last year with her and seen her do the things she had done,
>you would never guess that she has so many problems.
>
>The only people who really know her more than I do are her parents and
>one really close friend who goes to school in the mid-atlantic area
>and doesn't have much time to spend with her nowadays. She claims that
>none of her friends who left her hometown to go to college don't come
>come back anymore. But that might not be totally true.

Her parents are legally responsible, if she can't take care of
herself. It's typical to loose most of your friends when you start
acting manic, as you describe.
>
>She told me she had a very rough time in her senior year (2004-2005) of
>high school and her freshman year of college Fall 2005 - Spring 2006. I
>know her grades were not up to her usual standards her first semester,
>and she apparently went out to many frat parties and drank with a fake ID.

That's the whisper in your ear that something isn't right.
>
>Things got a little better the spring of her freshman year grade wise,
>and she didn't seem to be doing as much drinking. She wanted to
>transfer to another school up North where she thought she would fit in,
>but they didn't accept her because of her Fall semester grades.
>
>She got the rejection notice from the other school in the middle of a
>6-week foreign study program in a country with a history of serious
>depression and alcohol abuse. Her e-mails to me indicated she was out
>at clubs every night and alcohol was sold everywhere (mixed drinks in
>cans even sold in coffee shops and internet cafes). Once she got home,
>she bragged how she was totally drunk the last two days of her stay, and
>needed to be "poured" on the plane for the ride back to the US - and
>they even had to confiscate some canned alcoholic beverages from her.

They won't let you on the plane, unless you act normal (no stumbling,
no drunk type walking or behavior). So, this was probably a great
exaggeration.

She placed herself in an environment where it was easy to self
medicate. IMO, she needs a detox before anything else. She can't get
past the alcohol, until and unless it is out of her system and I mean
emotionally.
>
>She said more than once that she was or had been depressed, going to
>therapy, and had been taking anti-depressants. I didn't find out that
>she was taking Prozac until right before Christmas 2006. I then found
>out there are risks for consuming anything other than moderate amounts
>of alcohol when taking Prozac.

One should never drink when taking any form of psychotropic
medication. She is probably an alcoholic first. So, treat that and
see how things sort out.
>
>I feel she is self-medicating with alcohol. She probably had 10
>different sex partners (including me) from her senior year in high
>school until the end of her Freshman year. She had at least one old sex
>partner this past summer but probably more. Then she had at least 7
>different sex partners this fall and spring semester (including me).
>She would go out to bars two nights a week with her co-workers, and 3
>nights a week to meet guys.

She is exhibiting typical risky behavior of someone with bipolar. It's
more dangerous than you think. This is how people get abducted into
the International slave market.

But, the behavior could be from something else and she needs a
therapist or psychiatrist to sort that out. She has some form of dual
disorder and there are special treatment centers for people like her.
>
>She would meet slightly older guys in bars who would buy her drinks,
>dance with her, then take her back to her dorm room for sex. She became
>a "bootie-call" girl - someone you didn't take out for a pleasant night
>on the town - but you called up after you were done with your friends or
>meeting other women you think you might have a chance for a long-term
>relationship with.

Let's face it, she's a prostitute. And you should not sleep with her
until and unless she stops the risky behavior AND gets tested for
STDs. Tell her so.
>
>I didn't find out about that until late October of this year. Then I
>had to cut out our sexual relations and I think she felt somewhat
>rejected by that. But what was I supposed to do - continue to have
>sexual relations with someone who didn't care about my health?

She doesn't care about anything but feeling better. You are talking
to the alcohol, not your friend. And good job on the nixed sex. :)
>
>She missed a great number of classes this past Fall Semester - a friend
>of mine who was in her last class on MWF (2-3) said she missed 10 out of
>45 sessions, and when she did show up she would often reak of tobacco
>smoke and alcohol coming from out of her pores. She seemed to be
>getting straightened out before the end of the Fall Semester, but what
>she was really doing was changing her tactics. She set her sights on
>either bartenders or bar owners to date and screw so she would have a
>"house" bar to call her own - be able to go to it, dance and get drunk.
>

>Now I am a few years older than she is. But at least she and I
>concocted a story to explain the times we spent together. She called me
>her "uncle" since she did have family about 90 miles away. We were of
>the same race - both white. The bar owner she is going out with now is
>not. She defends her choice to date him as her friends in the small
>college town would accept him over me because he lives here and had lots
>of friends her age in town. On his MySpace page he has only comments
>from white chicks, one of whom calls him a "pimpdaddy".

If you have to lie, then I wouldn't do it. Be honest, you might be
surprised. What's all this racial stuff? Are you in the USA?

She's a prostitute. Run, run as fast as you can. Don't get drawn
into that kind of lifestyle.

She's lying to you again (racial stuff).

Everything that comes out of her mouth is only in her eyes mind of
reality--it is her reality--not anyone else's.

You are talking to the drugs.

Only her parents can do an intervention, unless you want to spend a
long time trying to do it yourself (red tape and all).

>
>That is because he is an alco-pimp - trying to make friends with tons of
>young undergrads to come and spend money in his bar. If he can get
>enough cute chicks to drink and act silly in the bar, he can make the
>guys want to come there and spend money. But there is no way that her
>friends in the dorms will accept her dating a short dumpy black man. I
>don't accept the fact that this guy lies about his age, had been found
>guilty of Assault and Battery (hit his own kid), beat his wife before he
>divorced her, and then had to be sued for child support. On top of
>that, his bar buddies are also scum - one was arrested and found guilty
>of aiding and abetting in Assault with a Deadly weapon (held down a kid
>while his friend shot him in the head). One of the danger signs of
>someone who is manic or bi polar is if they date or have relationships
>with abusive partners.
>
Nice guy, NOT. He will eventually do the same to your friend. And
she'll deny it for a long time.


>I care about her a great deal and it's very hard to walk away from
>someone you have know and love and have felt that way about for over a
>year. Yes - I said love. Not that I want to marry her.
>
>I feel she was might have been misdiagnosed with depression when she
>might have been manic all along. Or that with no monitoring of her meds
>and no therapy down here she might have slipped over into being manic or
>bi-polar. The local college counselors seem to feel that she needs
>serious help - intervention, a full evaluation including therapy, med
>evaluation, testing for nutrition, seeing if her BC pills are playing a
>part in her mental health condition, etc.

But, I'd want to get her off drugs and alcohol before a psych
evaluation. To me the evaluation is useless until you can talk to the
real person, not the drugs.
>
>I have no leverage to help her get treatement, so I called her father
>and mother and they share my concerns over her behavior, but they don't
>seem to want to lay down the law with her - tell her to stop drinking
>and going to bars, and associating with abusive people, getting therapy
>and hanging out with people who can help her to regain a postive outlook
>on life.

That's really sad. There are so many things they could do.

They can't lay down the law in that manner, because she can't just
stop drinking cold turkey. She needs a rehabilitation treatment
center (preferable in-patient). And they can facilitate an
intervention to at least place her on a 72 hour hold in a mental
facility for evaluation and probably a fast detox.
>
>So I wonder if anyone else has been in the same place my friend is in
>now - and if you could share how you got out of it and regained a
>healthy life?
>
While I haven't been in the same place, a number of people here have
and I've seen a couple of friends in similar situation.

Wow! "regained a healthy life"

That's not really how things work for most of us--not all. You fight
for control every day of your life, regardless of medications,
meditations, and all the other things we do to stay in control.

You will need medications and therapy for life. You will need to
establish routines and systems that keep you calm, so you can
accomplish things. There will probably medication changes as you age.
You must avoid any triggers (in this case alcohol, bars, and acting
out sexually.

Some of us are able to work, some of us aren't.

You can't forget it, but can put it on a back burner.

No one can help her until she recognizes she needs help and asks for
it.

I hope your friend seeks help.

HTH, Nancy


From: On the Road to Damascus on 22 Mar 2007 15:00
On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:13:25 -0800, Nancy <gnn4everZ(a)surewest.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 00:50:05 GMT, Health Concerns
><health742concerns(a)earthlink.net> etched permanently into the ether:
>
>Nancy said:
>>> If you have to lie, then I wouldn't do it. Be honest, you might be
>>> surprised. What's all this racial stuff? Are you in the USA?
>>
>>Yes - in the USA. Where are you? She goes to a liberal college down
>>South, and there are still some racial issues that you can get caught up
>>on. She is dating a short, fat, dumpy black guy who acts like a
>>pimpdaddy. Do you not think that her friends and classmates will notice
>>this and think that something is a little out of wack?
>
>I'm in California, but my ISP gives it away, because Surewest only provides
>service to northern California and parts of Nevada and Arizona.
>
>I understand the race thing, I don't like it, but I understand it. An old
>plantation town, eh?

All PC issues aside, it is appropriate in this circumstance to mention
race, IMO. Same race joinings have enough problems, but the reality is
that when you see a black/white couple there is a much higher
probability of some underlying pathology. I'm sure in different parts
of the country this is true to greater or lesser degrees, but it is by
no means limited to the south, and it is a product of this country's
racial history.

To break it down to simple terms, you have a situation where, for
example, a white girl sees a black man ONLY because he is black, not
because of who he is, and not because she is attracted to black men.
It's a case of the boy from the wrong side of the tracks taken to
extremes. And in this case you have to suspect that the situation goes
beyond wanting to strike out in some way against the parents...there
is a very good chance that in a typical alcoholic fashion she is doing
this because on some level she feels it is degrading, and she wishes
to harm herself.

On the flip side, many black men see having a white girl as a status
symbol, and any white girl will do. In that context the "pimp daddy"
observation was important.

Her immediate problem is alcoholism. While she may in fact be bipolar,
the original poster has not described a single symptom that can not be
attributed to that downward spiral of self destruction. And your
advice is correct...he needs to distance himself from her. If she one
day reaches out her hand for help he can be there, but for now she
will only hurt and use everyone around her.

>
>What her friends and acquaintances notice depends on when they met her. If a
>person knew her before her troubles, they should notice a change in behavior.
>
>If a person met her during a transition, that person may or may not notice a
>change in her behavior.
>
>If a person met her yesterday, that person would only know her from yesterday
>and probably would not notice a change.
>
>I'd give 50/50 odds of either way.
>
>Nancy
From: On the Road to Damascus on 26 Mar 2007 01:22
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:57:38 -0800, Nancy <gnn4everZ(a)surewest.net>
wrote:

>Heads UP Moderators!
>
>On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 01:16:00 GMT, Health Concerns
><health742concerns(a)earthlink.net> etched permanently into the ether:
>
>>Yes - from what I have read, there is an underlying pathology for let's
>>say a young white girl only dating black men, and black men only having
>>emotionless sexual hookups with white women.
>
>(cross post deleted)
>
>I'm sorry this conversation just crossed the line. If you are going to make
>racist stereotypical statements, at least post some study to back up your
>intolerant words. Otherwise, take this conversation elsewhere.

I don't read any intolerance into what he said. No one is saying that
healthy black/white relationships, where the people involved are
attracted to each other <i>for who they are</i> instead of for what
color they are, do not exist. The sad reality is that due to the
pervasive racial climate in this country such a pathological
relationship is far too common, especially in a case like this where
serious alcohol abuse is taking place. Sad also, that many cases of
honest attraction no doubt lead nowhere because of perceived
difficulties/societal disapproval due to that same climate.

>
>Nancy Leitner
>administrator/creator/moderator
>alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info (moderated)
>alt.support.depression.manic.moderated
>
>to email me from news groups, just remove the Z.
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