Ping greyhackles re Iron and virons
in [Hepatitis C]
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From: Cactus Jammies on 23 Jan 2008 12:56 Hi Grey, Have you got any links that tell more about what you've written regarding iron and how it is 'gasoline' for the Hep C virus? (Maybe we could put it in the tanks of our Hummers?) :) cactus jammies ~~~~~~~~~000
From: greyhackles on 23 Jan 2008 21:37 On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:56:55 GMT, "Cactus Jammies" <cactusjammies(a)retinal.circus.orb> wrote: >Hi Grey, > Have you got any links that tell more about what you've written regarding >iron and how it is 'gasoline' for the Hep C virus? (Maybe we could put it >in the tanks of our Hummers?) :) > >cactus jammies ~~~~~~~~~000 Hi CJ! "Gasoline" may not be the right analogy, but as more studies are published, the effects of iron in the pre sense of inflammatory diseases such as HCV seems pretty clear. There appears to be a significant association between the degree of iron stores in the liver and the degree of damage inflicted with chronic HCV, presumably because iron enhances the oxidative stress associated with the disease. [Side note: it sure seems to be getting harder and harder to access trial results via the web. I kept running into the same handful of sites that only allow access to the articles with a paid subscription. Pisses me off muchly...] This study results that show a major reduction in ALT with long-term iron reduction therapy - with concomitant reduction in the risk for HCC. http://www.springerlink.com/content/v882v4581l85l257/ This study shows an unintended result: iron depletion therapy was used to see if anti-viral therapy would be improved among a cohort of non-responders. While iron depletion did not improve SVR rates, it did dramatically reduce ALT. http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=56145 This study incidentally showed a normalization of ALT with the use of iron depletion therapy. http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/61/24/8697 This study shows the when HCV patients on hemodialysis have iron supplements (to replace iron "lost" during dialysis) they have significantly higher ALT. (Note we can only see the synopsis of this article without paying for the rest). http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1440-1797.2005.00474.x?journalCode=nep You can find lots more digests and even full articles (if you look hard enough!) that pretty much show the same results, and at the least, rationalize a lower degree of liver damage as offshoot of iron depletion. There's more than enough evidence to convince me that non-responders that are showing any significant liver damage should consider some form of dietary iron reduction if not an outright iron depletion strategy. And, certainly, those folks should have their iron load determined through the appropriate test procedure (which, fwiw, is more than just measuring serum ferritin!) Cheers /greyhackles
From: Cactus Jammies on 24 Jan 2008 11:41 Hi Grey, Thanks for doing all this work for the group. I see that others are interested as well. Currently I am a on a low glycemic index food plan which means reduce corn, white potatoes, and white processed flour found in bread and pasta, among other things. The idea for this is to reduce the level of steatosis (fatty liver, fat stored in liver cells) so as to improve the efficiency of the healthy liver I still have. Of course large meat portions and processed foods containing corn products and varieties of sugars are also included in the list. The list of friendly foods, according to the glycemic index can be found easily by googling 'foods glycemic index' or something like that. Diabetics are the target audience for info like that. Of course from what I understand, Milk Thistle aids in the process of guarding against fatty liver. As for dietary sources of iron, I will do a google search on that. I have an appointment with my PCP next week and I will ask him about iron in the liver and ALT levels. I don't know if he does referrals for clinical work on iron depletion or not, I suspect not. We'll see. The first thing I should do though, is have a look at the testing procedure for iron in the system. thanks again cactus Jammies ------- "greyhackles" <greyhackles(a)NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message news:cu4fp3td78lifj3dj8u9thp9slm2ro5srf(a)4ax.com... > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:56:55 GMT, "Cactus Jammies" > <cactusjammies(a)retinal.circus.orb> wrote: > >>Hi Grey, >> Have you got any links that tell more about what you've written >> regarding >>iron and how it is 'gasoline' for the Hep C virus? (Maybe we could put it >>in the tanks of our Hummers?) :) >> >>cactus jammies ~~~~~~~~~000 > > Hi CJ! > > "Gasoline" may not be the right analogy, but as more studies are > published, > the effects of iron in the pre sense of inflammatory diseases such as HCV > seems pretty clear. There appears to be a significant association between > the > degree of iron stores in the liver and the degree of damage inflicted with > chronic HCV, presumably because iron enhances the oxidative stress > associated > with the disease. > > [Side note: it sure seems to be getting harder and harder to access trial > results via the web. I kept running into the same handful of sites that > only > allow access to the articles with a paid subscription. Pisses me off > muchly...] > > This study results that show a major reduction in ALT with long-term iron > reduction therapy - with concomitant reduction in the risk for HCC. > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/v882v4581l85l257/ > > This study shows an unintended result: iron depletion therapy was used to > see > if anti-viral therapy would be improved among a cohort of non-responders. > While iron depletion did not improve SVR rates, it did dramatically reduce > ALT. > > http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=56145 > > This study incidentally showed a normalization of ALT with the use of iron > depletion therapy. > > http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/61/24/8697 > > This study shows the when HCV patients on hemodialysis have iron > supplements > (to replace iron "lost" during dialysis) they have significantly higher > ALT. > (Note we can only see the synopsis of this article without paying for the > rest). > > http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1440-1797.2005.00474.x?journalCode=nep > > > You can find lots more digests and even full articles (if you look hard > enough!) that pretty much show the same results, and at the least, > rationalize > a lower degree of liver damage as offshoot of iron depletion. There's more > than enough evidence to convince me that non-responders that are showing > any > significant liver damage should consider some form of dietary iron > reduction > if not an outright iron depletion strategy. And, certainly, those folks > should > have their iron load determined through the appropriate test procedure > (which, > fwiw, is more than just measuring serum ferritin!) > > Cheers > > /greyhackles >
From: Cactus Jammies on 24 Jan 2008 12:19 "Cactus Jammies" <cactusjammies(a)retinal.circus.orb> wrote in message news:Tc3mj.14122$vp3.984(a)edtnps90... > Hi Grey, > As for dietary sources of iron, I will do a google search on that. I > have an appointment with my PCP next week and I will ask him about iron in > the liver and ALT levels. I don't know if he does referrals for clinical > work on iron depletion or not, I suspect not. We'll see. The first thing > I should do though, is have a look at the testing procedure for iron in > the system. > > thanks again > > cactus Jammies ------- I just had a look at a low iron diet from one of the pages you posted. Doen't look good for what I am eating. It calls for replacing beans, leafy greens, meat, shellfish etc. with refined carbohydrates. Not what I wanted to see, I'm afraid. That would pretty well nix what I am doing to control the steatosis (and my weight). Oh well, more questions for the doctor, I guess. Thank goodness at least my PCP tries answer them. cactus jammies
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