Phlebotomy Improves Hepatitis C
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From: Normin on 21 Apr 2008 21:28 actually *I* am the one who referred to what you are spewing as drivel. Eileen was sincerely trying to have a conversation with you. God knows why. Sara <ironjustice(a)aol.com> wrote in message news:a9eaa737-aa80-4337-8f85-deeb7046e4ab(a)m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com... On Apr 21, 3:28 pm, eileen <samiamtwo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: (drivel snipped) In no way am I being hostile << "drivel" "In no way am I being hostile" .. You must really think I am about as stupid as yourself .. driv�el 1. saliva flowing from the mouth, or mucus from the nose; slaver. 2. childish, silly, or meaningless talk or thinking; nonsense; twaddle. �verb (used without object) 3. to let saliva flow from the mouth or mucus from the nose; slaver. 4. to talk childishly or idiotically. 5. Archaic. to issue like spittle. �verb (used with object) 6. to utter childishly or idiotically. 7. to waste foolishly. hostile 1 a: of or relating to an enemy <hostile fire> b: marked by malevolence <a hostile act> c: openly opposed or resisting <a hostile critic> <hostile to new ideas> d (1): not hospitable <plants growing in a hostile environment> (2): having an intimidating, antagonistic, or offensive nature <a hostile workplace> 2 a: of or relating to the opposing party in a legal controversy <a hostile witness> b: adverse to the interests of a property owner or corporation management <a hostile takeover> On Apr 21, 3:28 pm, eileen <samiamtwo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:please direct me to your professional board << I suppose you might direct it to .. Education and Training , Mount Everest. Make sure you use the .. acronym. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk please direct me to your professional board. In no way am I being hostile, I am just trying to understand what your position is. << > On Apr 19, 9:45 pm, "ironjust...(a)aol.com" <ironjust...(a)aol.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Listen up .. > > > So .. take your singing anywhere BUT **my** thread .. because > > .. ? .. > > it is a thread about the success of bloodletting > > /phlebotomyin > >hepatitis.. something YOU know .. admittingly .. fkall about > >.. > > > Sooo .. take your opinions of ME .. my work .. to yourself .. > > because > > again .. being that you've only been around for a couple of > > years .. > > means .. you KNOW fkall about me .. and I have learned quite > > abit > > about YOU .. in no time at'all .. > > > Who loves ya. > > Tom > > > Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh > > > Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 > > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > Tom, > Could you please present us with your credentials and tell us > what > actually is your work. > This is an honest question, are you a member of the AMA or any > of the > Medical Sciences? > Are you paid to be in research? And if, so please direct me to > your > professional board. > In no way am I being hostile, I am just trying to understand > what your > position is. > eileen- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: Sick Boy on 21 Apr 2008 21:37 >On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:50:07 -0700 (PDT), ironjustice(a)aol.com wrote: [parts of rant by "ironjustice" snipped] >Second, you know my presence here is entirely to help others down the trail. >Indeed, while I believe I have helped many folks in one fashion or another, I >can think of at least one person who had HCV, told everyone here he had *no >intention* of treating it, that I believe I convinced to give it a try, and >was CURED. He came here under the handle of Sick Boy. Google that, nimrod. Heh...hey there, Grey. Funny that I came across this just as I was catching up on my newsgroup reading. Sigh...Usenet has been turning into a cesspool for many years now, and it appears to not be limited to a particular newsgroup. Unfortunately, it appears the ratio of useful content to spam, juvenile outbursts, trolling, and variations of the themes is getting smaller each year. Anyway, I see that I have a legitimate reason to hijack this thread now ;-) Just wanted to confirm your words in person, so to speak. Yes, I was a wee lad, frightened and naive, when I came here hoping to find reasons *not* to treat HepC--it seems like it's been ages ago (but only a year or so, in reality), but I am quite sure I remember how I felt about the whole thing. Can't be bothered Googleing myself, hehee. It flatters me that you remember my appearance on this newsgroup with such clarity, Grey. Indeed, it was mostly your calm reassurance, personal experience, and vast knowledge of the subject at hand that prompted me to cast a serious glance at the possibility of that much-dreaded interferon/ribarivin Tx. I don't mean to diminish the role of everyone else whose support and encouragement I value, but it would be fair to say that you were *the* decisive factor that tipped the scales when I was making that choice. So, just another opportunity to thank you, mate. You've done a bigger favour than I could realise back then. I wouldn't go as far as using the word "cured"--out of pure superstition, if nothing else. I'm seeing my doctor for 6-month post-Tx follow-up in a week, fingers crossed. <g> Everything should go well, though, given how quickly I responded and normal liver levels and undetectable viral load at 3-month follow-up. I'm trying to live a healthier life-style now, too. Still, a big nervous. The past year or so has been much more than just a (so far) successful Tx for me, though. I've experienced what a friend has termed as "epiphany" when I travelled in New Zealand for 5 weeks in February and March. Began to appreciate how awesome it is to be alive, among other things such as mind clarity. I don't know if going through the unpleasant experience of Tx was necessary to gain this new perspective, but that's how it happened, and I am very grateful for it. I am a stronger man now (at least I think I am <g>). I've just glanced at my older posts here, and it sounds like a different person. A part of it is not feeling 100% during Tx, of course, but I also think my general outlook has improved quite a bit. I'm writing this partly for the benefit of people reading this who are about to start Tx, like Cindy (?). It's not all bad, and you can't believe the euphoria that follows when you begin feeling better after the Tx ends, after being told the blood thing isn't detectable. My experience wasn't too bad...to think of it, I got off easy, remembering the stories of some others. But then, everyone has a different tolerance for pain, so it's not easy to say. My point is, don't anticipate the worst. I was really afraid before I took the plunge, but after the unknown factor was gone, I set my eyes on the prize and haven't looked back ever since. This has turned a bit longer than I intended--and probably not in an appropriate thread, too. Grey--my sincere and utmost gratitude to you, my friend. Cheers, Sick Boy -- Sick Boy
From: ironjustice on 21 Apr 2008 23:27 On Apr 20, 5:14 am, "ironjust...(a)aol.com" <ironjust...(a)aol.com> wrote: Bloodletting in hepatitis << Effects of Dietary Iron Reduction Versus Phlebotomy in Patients with Chronic Hepatitis C: Results from a Randomized, Controlled Trial on 40 Japanese Patients. Intern Med. 2007;46(10):637-642. Epub 2007 May 24. Sumida Y, Kanemasa K, Fukumoto K, Yoshida N, Sakai K. Department of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, Nara City Hospital. Background and Aim Iron may play an important role in the pathogenesis of hepatitis C. We conducted this randomized, controlled trial comparing phlebotomy with dietary iron reduction. Methods Forty patients with chronic hepatitis C showing serum ferritin levels of over 150 ng/ml wererandomized to either group A (low-iron diet for six months) or group B (phlebotomy biweekly). Phlebotomy was continued until serum ferritin had reached 20 ng/ml or less. Results At enrollment the clinical characteristics of patients in the two groups were similar. Serum ALT levels were significantly reduced in both groups, but the percent change in alanine aminotransferase (ALT) was larger in group B (median, -47.1[range, -69.1 to -16.7] %) than in group A (-24.2 [-72.6 to 15.9] %, p<0.001). In group A subjects, no correlation wasdetected between percent change in ALT and clinical parameters. In group B subjects, the baseline ALT activity was significantly correlated with percent change in ALT (p<0.05), but iron- related parameters were not correlated. Conclusion The efficacy of phlebotomy is superior to that of dietary iron reduction in chronic hepatitis C. Serum levels of transaminase activities were a better indicator for phlebotomy thanconventional indices of iron overload. PMID: 17527035 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > On Apr 18, 10:36 am, "ironjust...(a)aol.com" <ironjust...(a)aol.com> > wrote: Bloodletting in hepatitis << > > <<snip>> > direct hepatocarcinogenic effect of free iron is mediated by the > generation of oxygen reactive species and oxidative damage that are > mutagenic and carcinogenic > <<snip>> > > 1: Toxicology. 2005 Dec 5; [Epub ahead of print] Links > > Hepatocellular carcinoma caused by iron overload: A possible > mechanism > of direct hepatocarcinogenicity. > > Asare GA, Mossanda KS, Kew MC, Paterson AC, Kahler-Venter CP, Siziba > K. > > MRC/University Molecular Hepatology Research Unit, Department of > Medicine, University of the Witwatersrand, 7 York Road, Parktown > 2193, > Johannesburg, South Africa. > > BACKGROUND/AIMS: > Excess hepatic iron may be both directly and > indirectly carcinogenic. The aim of this study was to determine if > generation of reactive oxygen species and the resulting oxidative > damage induced by free hepatic iron is directly hepatocarcinogenic. > METHODS: Sixty male Wistar albino rats were iron-loaded by ferrocene > supplementation of their diet. Biochemical parameters of oxidative > damage and lipid peroxidation, DNA unwinding and strand breaks, and > the > Ames Mutagenesis Test were measured at 4 monthly intervals and > correlated with the degree of hepatic iron overload, the presence of > iron-free preneoplastic foci in the liver, and the development of > hepatocellular carcinoma in comparison with 60 control rats. > RESULTS: > Levels of lipid hydroperoxides, malonaldehyde, 8-isoprostane and > 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine increased, reaching peak concentrations > at > 20-24 months, and correlating with an increase in the rate of DNA > unwinding, strand breaks, and positive Ames Tests. Iron-free > neoplastic > foci became evident at 16 months and thereafter increased in number. > Preneoplastic foci were present in five of eight rats remaining at 32 > months and HCC had developed in one of the five. > CONCLUSIONS: > Our findings are compatible with the hypothesis that the direct > hepatocarcinogenic effect of free iron is mediated by the generation > of > oxygen reactive species and oxidative damage that are mutagenic and > carcinogenic. > > PMID: 16337327 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Who loves ya. > Tom > > Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh > > Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > > > > Bloodletting in hepatitis .. > > Whoda .. thunk. > > > Dig Dis Sci. 2008 Mar;53(3):815-22. Epub 2007 Sep 12. > > Phlebotomy improves therapeutic response to interferon in patients > > with chronic hepatitis C: a meta-analysis of six prospective > > randomized controlled trials. > > Desai TK, Jamil LH, Balasubramaniam M, Koff R, Bonkovsky HL. > > William Beaumont Hospital, Royal Oak, MI, USA. tusarde...(a)aol.com > > > Prospective randomized controlled trials (RCTs) comparing phlebotomy > > and interferon (IFN) treatment to IFN alone in > > patients with chronic hepatitis C (CHC) have suggested a > > benefit for the phlebotomy group. > > However, statistical significance was achieved in only one of these > > trials. > > We performed a meta-analysis of RCTs comparing phlebotomy and IFN to > > IFN alone for the treatment of CHC. > > The MEDLINE database and Cochrane registry of controlled trials were > > searched using the key words "phlebotomy" and "treatment of hepatitis > > C." > > Reference lists of review articles discussing the interaction between > > iron and CHC, and prospective RCTs comparing phlebotomy plus IFN > > therapy to IFN alone were searched to identify additional RCTs that > > compared phlebotomy > > plus IFN to IFN alone. > > Peto odds ratios with their 95% confidence intervals and Forrest plots > > were generated for each variable to assess the relationships among the > > studies that had provided that information. > > Statistical analysis was performed using Comprehensive > > META-Analysis version 2.0. > > Six prospective RCTs were identified: all used sustained viral > > response (SVR) as an endpoint. > > The three largest RCTs excluded patients with cirrhosis. > > Two RCTs specifically included only patients with either high ferritin > > or high hepatic iron content. > > IFN treatment regimes varied. > > Length of treatment varied between 6 and 12 months. > > The phlebotomy plus IFN group and the IFN group did not > > differ with respect to the percentage of patients with cirrhosis or > > genotype 1. > > SVR was attained in 50/182 (27%) patients in the phlebotomy plus IFN > > group, compared to 22/185 (12%) patients in the > > IFN group. > > Peto odds ratio for SVR in phlebotomy plus IFN group was > > 2.7; 95% CI 1.6-4.5, P < 0.0001. > > All five RCTs published in manuscript form showed a trend towards a > > benefit from the phlebotomy plus IFN in attaining SVR, and the results > > of the meta-analysis were not dependent on any single RCT, since > > excluding any single RCT did not change the > > results. > > Phlebotomy improves the SVR in response to IFN treatment in > > patients with CHC. > > Confirmation of this will require RCT with detailed pre-treatment iron > > studies and appropriately powered to demonstrate a > > statistically significant benefit. > > > PMID: 17846887 [PubMed - in process] > > > Who loves ya. > > Tom > > > Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh > > > Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 > > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: ironjustice on 22 Apr 2008 02:08
On Apr 21, 6:28 pm, "Normin" <norminfishb...(a)aol.com> wrote: actually *I* am the one who referred to what you are spewing as drivel. Eileen was sincerely trying to have a conversation with you. God knows why. << Oh well .. same sht .. different person .. I believe .. ***I*** .. would be a better judge as to intentions .. I've seen every trick pulled and if you think .. her .. "oh I'm so fkg nice it makes me sick" .. ploy .. is gonna fool .. me .. You are about as stupid as you act .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > Sara > > <ironjust...(a)aol.com> wrote in message > > news:a9eaa737-aa80-4337-8f85-deeb7046e4ab(a)m1g2000pre.googlegroups.com... > On Apr 21, 3:28 pm, eileen <samiamtwo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > (drivel snipped) In no way am I being hostile << > > "drivel" > "In no way am I being hostile" .. > > You must really think I am about as stupid as yourself .. > > driv·el > 1. saliva flowing from the mouth, or mucus from the nose; slaver. > 2. childish, silly, or meaningless talk or thinking; nonsense; > twaddle. > verb (used without object) 3. to let saliva flow from the mouth > or > mucus from the nose; slaver. > 4. to talk childishly or idiotically. > 5. Archaic. to issue like spittle. > verb (used with object) 6. to utter childishly or idiotically. > 7. to waste foolishly. > > hostile > > 1 a: of or relating to an enemy <hostile fire> b: marked by > malevolence <a hostile act> c: openly opposed or resisting <a > hostile > critic> <hostile to new ideas> d (1): not hospitable <plants > growing > in a hostile environment> (2): having an intimidating, > antagonistic, > or offensive nature <a hostile workplace> > 2 a: of or relating to the opposing party in a legal controversy > <a > hostile witness> b: adverse to the interests of a property owner > or > corporation management <a hostile takeover> > > On Apr 21, 3:28 pm, eileen <samiamtwo...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:please > direct me to your professional board << > > I suppose you might direct it to .. Education and Training , > Mount > Everest. > > Make sure you use the .. acronym. > > Who loves ya. > Tom > > Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh > > Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > please direct me to your professional board. In no way am I being > hostile, I am just trying to understand what your position is. << > > > > > On Apr 19, 9:45 pm, "ironjust...(a)aol.com" <ironjust...(a)aol.com> > > wrote: > > > > Listen up .. > > > > So .. take your singing anywhere BUT **my** thread .. because > > > .. ? .. > > > it is a thread about the success of bloodletting > > > /phlebotomyin > > >hepatitis.. something YOU know .. admittingly .. fkall about > > >.. > > > > Sooo .. take your opinions of ME .. my work .. to yourself .. > > > because > > > again .. being that you've only been around for a couple of > > > years .. > > > means .. you KNOW fkall about me .. and I have learned quite > > > abit > > > about YOU .. in no time at'all .. > > > > Who loves ya. > > > Tom > > > > Jesus Was A Vegetarian!http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh > > > > Man Is A Herbivore!http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 > > > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKINGhttp://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > > Tom, > > Could you please present us with your credentials and tell us > > what > > actually is your work. > > This is an honest question, are you a member of the AMA or any > > of the > > Medical Sciences? > > Are you paid to be in research? And if, so please direct me to > > your > > professional board. > > In no way am I being hostile, I am just trying to understand > > what your > > position is. > > eileen- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - |