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From: Hilary on 18 Oct 2005 08:30
I have been struggling with hypothyroid symptoms for years now, and
I've FINALLY gotten a doctor to listen to me. She tested me and lo and
behold, I am indeed hypothyroid. Doctors are usually skeptical when I
speak to them regarding this because I am only 24 and I have no
children. I do have a family history of hypothyroidism, however. In
any case, my doctor put me on Armour, but after about a month, I had a
sudden onset of panic attacks (having never experienced one prior to
this in my life, I can only assume that the medication was causing it.)
I returned to the doctor, and she said while it is rare, it does
happen to some patients. She then took me off the Armour and put me on
Levoxyl, but at 25mcg, the lowest dosage. The panic attacks have
subsided in frequency, but I still get them, and I feel more depressed
after having gone on the medication! Has anyone else experienced
anything like this? Does anyone have any advice? I'm thinking I need
to see an endocrinologist.

From: stella @ stejonda on 18 Oct 2005 09:23
In message <1129638600.427356.23150(a)f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Hilary <hpitha(a)hotmail.com> writes
>I have been struggling with hypothyroid symptoms for years now, and
>I've FINALLY gotten a doctor to listen to me. She tested me and lo and
>behold, I am indeed hypothyroid. Doctors are usually skeptical when I
>speak to them regarding this because I am only 24 and I have no
>children. I do have a family history of hypothyroidism, however. In
>any case, my doctor put me on Armour, but after about a month, I had a
>sudden onset of panic attacks (having never experienced one prior to
>this in my life, I can only assume that the medication was causing it.)
> I returned to the doctor, and she said while it is rare, it does
>happen to some patients. She then took me off the Armour and put me on
>Levoxyl, but at 25mcg, the lowest dosage. The panic attacks have
>subsided in frequency, but I still get them, and I feel more depressed
>after having gone on the medication! Has anyone else experienced
>anything like this? Does anyone have any advice? I'm thinking I need
>to see an endocrinologist.
>

Hilary

Others will be able to explain this better than I but I think you have
low adrenals. There is a book worth reading called 'The Great Thyroid
Scandal and How to Survive it' by Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield. He
suggests that if there is low adrenal reserve you need to treat the
adrenals *before* treating the thyroid. If you don't it makes the
patient worse. This happened to me. So your anxiety may be linked to the
state of your adrenal glands. Anyone feel free to comment if you think
I'm wrong.

Perhaps you could post your test results to help people here to comment
helpfully.

Stella
--
stella @ stejonda
From: moriarte on 18 Oct 2005 09:51
What exactly constitutes 'low adrenals' though? - I've just had mine
done (following on from bad reaction to T3, with renewed bouts of
severe anxiety, waking up with racing pulse etc) and the results came
back 'within range'. I have posted about this here a couple of days
ago, no replies though.

> So your anxiety may be linked to the
> state of your adrenal glands. Anyone feel free to comment if you think
> I'm wrong.
>
> Perhaps you could post your test results to help people here to comment
> helpfully.
>
> Stella
> --
> stella @ stejonda

From: skipperbeers on 18 Oct 2005 11:15

moriarte wrote:
> What exactly constitutes 'low adrenals' though? - I've just had mine
> done (following on from bad reaction to T3, with renewed bouts of
> severe anxiety, waking up with racing pulse etc) and the results came
> back 'within range'. I have posted about this here a couple of days
> ago, no replies though.

The problem is it's hard to diagnose. Labs are open to interpretation.
One can have normal readings and get better by taking either
hydrocortisone for low adrenals or thyroid medication for
hypothyroidism, while still in the "normal" range. My wife's thyroid
numbers always looked good, but she got better on high doses of T3.
Asthma doesn't go away, pulse rate and blood pressure go down in that
situation unless you have a real thyroid problem. Yet the labs don't
show it.

In "From Fatigued to Fantastic", Jacob Teitalbaum said he'd give
patients a trial of Cortef (hydrocortisone) if their AM cortisol was
under 12. I read that, had my doctor give me an AM cortisol test, and
asked for Cortef. She told me that after 5 years and lots of money
paid to her, that it was time for me and my family to find another
doctor.

My reading was 11.8, not exactly well under the 12 mentioned. Yet,
when I went on Cortef, I felt improvement with the first pill.
Specific symptoms went away including chest pain that had been
diagnosed as "costochondritis", "rheumatoid" in the hip joints, and a
problem with frequent urination.

The theory is that if you take a replacement dosage as opposed to a
superphysiolocial dose which the doctors aren't afraid of if they think
you need it, you won't have the nasty side effects. They think just
because they give you enough Prednisone (a synthetic analog of
cortisol) to equal 8 times or so of your adrenal's daily production of
cortisol, that if they give you small dosages you will have the same
nasty side effects. But they're wrong, and for the people who need
replacement of hydrocortison, it's a lot like a miracle drug.

The theory is if you get around 5 mg 4 times daily of hydrocortisone,
it will be small enough so it won't stop the HPA axis from working,
which means your pituitary will still put out enough ACTH when your
body needs more cortisol. William Jeffries who wrote "Safe Uses of
Cortisol" said that people receiving this treatment would actually have
a higher adrenal reserve in the event of emergencies. That 20 mg of
hydrocortisone I referred to is equal to only 5 mg of Prednisone. Some
people use Prednisone instead, and because it's cheaper I used it once.
But then, I didn't realize that it was a synthetic analog and
hydrocortisone was like the real substance your body produces.

I knew from watching my wife and daughter take Prednisone for allergic
reactions it is a drug that makes people stupid and extremely
aggressive, at least in high enough doses. When I tried Prednisone, it
didn't do much helpful, it made me a bit sick, and at about 20 mg of
Prednisone, it made me extremely hostile. And my wife would get 80 mg
when needed for allergic reactions, no wonder she was so vicous when
she took it. Prednisone does not have the salt retaining properties of
hydrocortisone. And one problem with low adrenals tends to be the fact
we don't retain enough salt. So, Cortef (hydrocortisone) works very
well for those with mild adrenal insufficiency. It's just real hard to
get treated.

Normally one would take 5 mg of hydrocortisone 4 times daily. However,
cortisol is necessary for immune function, and when one gets ill it's
suggested they double or triple their dose. One of the known side
effects of Prednisone is the reduced immunity. I assume that's also
true of Cortef, but don't know that for sure. I suspect if it is true
with Cortef also, what happens is your immunity improves up to a
certain dosage. Then beyond that, it starts negatively affecting your
immunity. However, in his book Jeffries never suggested more than
quadrupling the dose, and even if you do quadruple it (which you only
do under advisment for a serious illness), that's still only equal to
20 mg of Prednisone, which is about a quarter of what they gave my wife
for either allergies or pneumonia. (Yeah, Prednisone negatively
affects the immunity without question, yet when someone gets pneumonia
it helps them breathe, so they give it because they think the benefit
outweighs the possible fatal consequences.

Cortisol at the high levels they tend to give Prednisone is bad for the
brain, bad for the immunity, bad for the bones, causes weight gain
around the middle, puts you in a sad state of exhaustion when you're
weaned off it (and even sadder state if your doctors says, "A study
recently said you don't need to wean off these massive doses, the way
you used to wean off isn't necessary.") No wonder they're afraid to
give it in low doses (?) No wait, that's illogical, it should be that's
why their afraid to give it in the huge doses they do, and they don't
wait to see if a smaller dose would be effective they just bombard you
with huge amounts, but are afraid to give it to people who think they
have low adrenals in low doses, because the side effects of the high
doses are so bad.



Skipper

From: Kevin G. Rhoads on 18 Oct 2005 11:49
>No wait, that's illogical,

Who said logic had aught to do with it? Fear of malpractice suits, fear of censure by review boards,
fear of harming the patient, fear that you just don't know what you are doing -- it doesn't matter,
fear is not ruled by logic.
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