Ord's or Hashimoto's or are they essentially the same?
in [Thyroid]
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From: Gwenhyffar Milgi on 19 Feb 2006 06:59 I'm going to subject you to my ramblings because I'm trying to get some clarity in my own mind but not getting anywhere researching the subject online. Ord's thyroiditis is a term that, although it exists and can be referenced in medical publications, seems to be virtually unknown and/or unused. Hashimoto's thyroiditis is a term that seems to be used for all instances of hypothyroidism involving antiTPO. The difference between Ord's and Hashimoto's -as far as I can find- is that in Hashimoto's the thyroid is enlarged, and in Ord's, the thyroid is either not enlarged or atrophying. Enlargement and atrophy seem to me to be two distinct reactions to the same thyroid antibodies. In both cases, the problem can be addresses by supplementing the body's defecit of thyroid hormone, and essentially there is no difference in treating the two (which might explain the fact that there seems to be no interest in further researching the differences between the two). Would it not be logical -as it seems to be to me- that there would be a distinct difference between the two groups of thyroiditis sufferers in their reaction to the supplementation and the progression of the disease? Would the goitrous thyroiditis not have distinctly different effects on people's responses to medication as opposed to the non-goitrous or atrophying thyroiditis? If I look _only_ at myself, I fit into the "Ord's" category. I have thyroid antibodies and hypothyrodism symptoms, but my thyroid is not enlarged (on palpation). The difference I perceive between myself and people diagnosed with goitrous thyroiditis is that I seem to respond much more positively and much more rapidly to the supplementation of thyroid medication. However, my observation may well be flawed because as far as I can tell, everyone with antibodies is lumped into the "Hashimoto's" category, _even_ if they do not have an enlarged thyroid gland. Would it not matter to the _treatment_ protocol if the distinction between the two groups was made, so that patients could be more adequately informed about what they can expect as far as progression is concerned? Might it not be that for Ord's thyroiditis patients the expectations of progress are different because they do not _also_ have to deal with an enlarged thyroid and all the consequences of that? I find it very hard to believe that I'm simply one of the "miraculously positive response to medication" group, especially since I now know that my hypothyroidism started in 1999, and I did not get treatment until last December. Has anyone ever done any research at all into the differences between goitrous and non-goitrous thyroiditis sufferers and their responses to medication? Might not, if there is a difference, a more accurate medication protocol be set up for both groups, perhaps alleviating some of the problems that I have heard from Hashimoto's sufferers? Sorry, it got long, but my head is running around on this one a bit and I cannot find enough on Ord's, Hashimoto's and their differences online to get my head firmly around the distinction and it's possible consequeces for treatment. -- -- Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.
From: Rod on 19 Feb 2006 08:33 Gwenhyffar Milgi <gwenhyffar(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:43f85db3$0$92924 $dbd43001(a)news.wanadoo.nl: <snip long and effective discussion> > > Sorry, it got long, but my head is running around on this one a bit and > I cannot find enough on Ord's, Hashimoto's and their differences online > to get my head firmly around the distinction and it's possible > consequeces for treatment. > I think that the matter of treatment and discussion of the diseases is severely muddied by the term Hashimoto's being applied to all variants of goitrous thyroiditis. The additional muddying that occurs by adding in non- goitrous thyroiditis (i.e. Ord's) doesn't help but realistically it doesn't seem much worse! (Since when did they take enough notice of the thyroid to decide whether it was goitrous or not? Partner didn't have hers properly examined until several weeks had passed and she was sent for an ultrasound. There is no way that they could previously have determined whether or not her thyroid was at all goitrous. On the other hand, a large goitre is probably easy enough for even a doctor to identify. :-) ) I am convinced that researchers, medics and others routinely fail to apply any consistent distinctions. I found (and I would guess so too did you) that a few references to naming/renaming of the diseases were unavailable to we members of the public. I wholeheartedly agree that the various forms might require anything from slightly to massively altered treatment, might have different prognoses, etc. Partner has still heard neither Hashimoto's nor Ord's names being used for her illness by a doctor. As far as "they" are concerned, it seems just to be hypothyroidism with detected antibodies. I think that I would prefer partner's problem to be called 'hypothyroidism caused by autoimmune thyroid disease without goitre'. Just a bit more difficult to search for... -- Rod
From: Michelle Duford on 19 Feb 2006 15:56 What you say is quite interesting. I never had a goiter and I was told by a doctor I don't look hypothyroid. I find myself responding fairly well to the T4 treatment (if I can get a high enough prescription). I am curious to hear what others say. Michelle. "Gwenhyffar Milgi" <gwenhyffar(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:43f85db3$0$92924$dbd43001(a)news.wanadoo.nl... > I'm going to subject you to my ramblings because I'm trying to get some > clarity in my own mind but not getting anywhere researching the subject > online. > > Ord's thyroiditis is a term that, although it exists and can be referenced > in medical publications, seems to be virtually unknown and/or unused. > > Hashimoto's thyroiditis is a term that seems to be used for all instances > of hypothyroidism involving antiTPO. > > The difference between Ord's and Hashimoto's -as far as I can find- is > that in Hashimoto's the thyroid is enlarged, and in Ord's, the thyroid is > either not enlarged or atrophying. > > Enlargement and atrophy seem to me to be two distinct reactions to the > same thyroid antibodies. > > In both cases, the problem can be addresses by supplementing the body's > defecit of thyroid hormone, and essentially there is no difference in > treating the two (which might explain the fact that there seems to be no > interest in further researching the differences between the two). > > Would it not be logical -as it seems to be to me- that there would be a > distinct difference between the two groups of thyroiditis sufferers in > their reaction to the supplementation and the progression of the disease? > > Would the goitrous thyroiditis not have distinctly different effects on > people's responses to medication as opposed to the non-goitrous or > atrophying thyroiditis? > > If I look _only_ at myself, I fit into the "Ord's" category. I have > thyroid antibodies and hypothyrodism symptoms, but my thyroid is not > enlarged (on palpation). > > The difference I perceive between myself and people diagnosed with > goitrous thyroiditis is that I seem to respond much more positively and > much more rapidly to the supplementation of thyroid medication. However, > my observation may well be flawed because as far as I can tell, everyone > with antibodies is lumped into the "Hashimoto's" category, _even_ if they > do not have an enlarged thyroid gland. > > Would it not matter to the _treatment_ protocol if the distinction between > the two groups was made, so that patients could be more adequately > informed about what they can expect as far as progression is concerned? > > Might it not be that for Ord's thyroiditis patients the expectations of > progress are different because they do not _also_ have to deal with an > enlarged thyroid and all the consequences of that? > > I find it very hard to believe that I'm simply one of the "miraculously > positive response to medication" group, especially since I now know that > my hypothyroidism started in 1999, and I did not get treatment until last > December. > > Has anyone ever done any research at all into the differences between > goitrous and non-goitrous thyroiditis sufferers and their responses to > medication? Might not, if there is a difference, a more accurate > medication protocol be set up for both groups, perhaps alleviating some of > the problems that I have heard from Hashimoto's sufferers? > > Sorry, it got long, but my head is running around on this one a bit and I > cannot find enough on Ord's, Hashimoto's and their differences online to > get my head firmly around the distinction and it's possible consequeces > for treatment. > > -- > -- > Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. > Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right.
From: brenda c on 20 Feb 2006 06:27 funny that this came up. I have been spending tons of time trying to research this myself.. I have been on thyroid meds for 2 1/2 years. Things were going well until I developed a rash that wouldn't go away.Thought it was eczema at first.With the help of all of the posting and reading The Thyroid Solution I am much wiser , and more curious.In October I asked for an antibody count as a result of something I had read. the # was 3000 Last months count was 5820.I haven't been able to find anything that tells me how high the count will go b4 it stops. I too have no goiter , and was told by my endo and dr. it is hashis. The rash is probably dermatitis herpiformis. the dermatologist took a biopsy.no results yet. I am trying dapsone.(only the 3rd day) go away and I get all excited then it comes backin arreas that I never had it in . it seems to mirror itself. on both sides of the body same spot.I am also trying selenium. "Michelle Duford" <mduford(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:DX4Kf.46652$sa3.7904(a)pd7tw1no... > What you say is quite interesting. I never had a goiter and I was told by > a doctor I don't look hypothyroid. I find myself responding fairly well > to the T4 treatment (if I can get a high enough prescription). > > I am curious to hear what others say. > > Michelle. > > > "Gwenhyffar Milgi" <gwenhyffar(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > news:43f85db3$0$92924$dbd43001(a)news.wanadoo.nl... >> I'm going to subject you to my ramblings because I'm trying to get some >> clarity in my own mind but not getting anywhere researching the subject >> online. >> >> Ord's thyroiditis is a term that, although it exists and can be >> referenced in medical publications, seems to be virtually unknown and/or >> unused. >> >> Hashimoto's thyroiditis is a term that seems to be used for all instances >> of hypothyroidism involving antiTPO. >> >> The difference between Ord's and Hashimoto's -as far as I can find- is >> that in Hashimoto's the thyroid is enlarged, and in Ord's, the thyroid is >> either not enlarged or atrophying. >> >> Enlargement and atrophy seem to me to be two distinct reactions to the >> same thyroid antibodies. >> >> In both cases, the problem can be addresses by supplementing the body's >> defecit of thyroid hormone, and essentially there is no difference in >> treating the two (which might explain the fact that there seems to be no >> interest in further researching the differences between the two). >> >> Would it not be logical -as it seems to be to me- that there would be a >> distinct difference between the two groups of thyroiditis sufferers in >> their reaction to the supplementation and the progression of the disease? >> >> Would the goitrous thyroiditis not have distinctly different effects on >> people's responses to medication as opposed to the non-goitrous or >> atrophying thyroiditis? >> >> If I look _only_ at myself, I fit into the "Ord's" category. I have >> thyroid antibodies and hypothyrodism symptoms, but my thyroid is not >> enlarged (on palpation). >> >> The difference I perceive between myself and people diagnosed with >> goitrous thyroiditis is that I seem to respond much more positively and >> much more rapidly to the supplementation of thyroid medication. However, >> my observation may well be flawed because as far as I can tell, everyone >> with antibodies is lumped into the "Hashimoto's" category, _even_ if they >> do not have an enlarged thyroid gland. >> >> Would it not matter to the _treatment_ protocol if the distinction >> between the two groups was made, so that patients could be more >> adequately informed about what they can expect as far as progression is >> concerned? >> >> Might it not be that for Ord's thyroiditis patients the expectations of >> progress are different because they do not _also_ have to deal with an >> enlarged thyroid and all the consequences of that? >> >> I find it very hard to believe that I'm simply one of the "miraculously >> positive response to medication" group, especially since I now know that >> my hypothyroidism started in 1999, and I did not get treatment until last >> December. >> >> Has anyone ever done any research at all into the differences between >> goitrous and non-goitrous thyroiditis sufferers and their responses to >> medication? Might not, if there is a difference, a more accurate >> medication protocol be set up for both groups, perhaps alleviating some >> of the problems that I have heard from Hashimoto's sufferers? >> >> Sorry, it got long, but my head is running around on this one a bit and I >> cannot find enough on Ord's, Hashimoto's and their differences online to >> get my head firmly around the distinction and it's possible consequeces >> for treatment. >> >> -- >> -- >> Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. >> Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right. > >
From: Gwenhyffar Milgi on 20 Feb 2006 07:46
I came up with some German stuff. Basically they are saying that the distinction between goitrous and non-goitrous is not significant. However, this is not based on studies, but based on historical usage (the term Hashimoto's has been used almost exclusively for so long that they all use it no matter what type of thyroiditis you have). Since there are no studies that I can find on the difference between the two, how can they say that? Perhaps both groups need different treatment protocols, or need different supplementation protocols, but as long as no research is done into the difference, then doctors/researchers have no business saying that the distinction is not significant. -- Morality is doing what is right no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told no matter what is right. |