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From: Sy on 11 Jan 2008 11:28

DIAGNOSED AUGUST 2007 AND THESE TESTS AND RESULTS ENSUED:

Age-59
T1c
Gleason score 6 (3+3)
PSA 3.17 as of August, 2007
PSA doubled in 22 months
Bone Scan-Negative
CAT Scan-Negative
DRE-Negative

Had PSA test on January 9, 2008

PSA is 2.13

No sex for 48 hours prior to test, no bike riding etc..

What is one to "make" of that new PSA value?

Thanks,

Sy
From: Steve Kramer on 11 Jan 2008 13:10
"Sy" <stuttgart6(a)lycos.com> wrote in message
news:110120081128163666%stuttgart6(a)lycos.com...

> Had PSA test on January 9, 2008
>
> PSA is 2.13
>
> What is one to "make" of that new PSA value?

Your PSAD (if including your 2005 PSA) seems to be 4� years. If so, it
would appear that you have bought yourself another few months of Watchful
Waiting, should that be your desire -- and I assume it is.

As we have discussed before, it makes no sense at all that PSA would go down
in an untreated man diagnoses with prostate cancer by biopsy. But, for some
reason, it sometimes happens. The first that jumps to mind is Alex. He
also is working on WW. He might be of some help to you in this.

There have been seven others who tried WW, but none have been back in years
so I don't know their fates. I knew two who ended up getting treatment, but
I don't know what happened after that.



--
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after
PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years
Casodex added daily 07/06
PSA <0.04, <0.05, <0.04, <0.04 10/11/07
Non Illegitimi Carborundum


From: Sy on 11 Jan 2008 16:04
[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]


Hi Steve,

I just spoke to my Internist who believes that what may have happened
is that when I had the PSA done in August (3.17) I may have had an
inflammation which has since subsided and going for the biopsy and
being diagnosed with Pca was a serendipitous event based upon that PSA
reading.

Was wondering how you figured my PSAD ?


Thanks for your feedback.

Sy










In article <4787b102$0$4964$4c368faf(a)roadrunner.com>, Steve Kramer
<skramer(a)cinci.rr.com> wrote:

> "Sy" <stuttgart6(a)lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:110120081128163666%stuttgart6(a)lycos.com...
>
> > Had PSA test on January 9, 2008
> >
> > PSA is 2.13
> >
> > What is one to "make" of that new PSA value?
>
> Your PSAD (if including your 2005 PSA) seems to be 4� years. If so, it
> would appear that you have bought yourself another few months of Watchful
> Waiting, should that be your desire -- and I assume it is.
>
> As we have discussed before, it makes no sense at all that PSA would go down
> in an untreated man diagnoses with prostate cancer by biopsy. But, for some
> reason, it sometimes happens. The first that jumps to mind is Alex. He
> also is working on WW. He might be of some help to you in this.
>
> There have been seven others who tried WW, but none have been back in years
> so I don't know their fates. I knew two who ended up getting treatment, but
> I don't know what happened after that.
From: Steve Kramer on 11 Jan 2008 16:16
"Sy" <stuttgart6(a)lycos.com> wrote in message
news:110120081604096225%stuttgart6(a)lycos.com...

> Hi Steve,

I answered this in private email where I saw it first.


From: safire on 12 Jan 2008 05:35
cmdrdata wrote:
> On Jan 11, 10:28 am, Sy <stuttga...(a)lycos.com> wrote:
>> DIAGNOSED AUGUST 2007 AND THESE TESTS AND RESULTS ENSUED:
>>
>> Age-59
>> T1c
>> Gleason score 6 (3+3)
>> PSA 3.17 as of August, 2007
>> PSA doubled in 22 months
>> Bone Scan-Negative
>> CAT Scan-Negative
>> DRE-Negative
>>
>> Had PSA test on January 9, 2008
>>
>> PSA is 2.13

Congratulations Sy, on the result of your latest test.
>
> Lower PSA number on your recent test is good, BUT since you've already
> had a biopsy done that indicated G3+3, it seemed to me that you've
> got PCa, albeit slow growing. If I were in your position, I'd do these
> 3 things:
> 1. contact another lab to review and confirm the slides
> 2. contact the JHU researcher that is currently doing a study on PCa
> marker other than PSA (they claimed 93% accuracy) and see if
> they are interested in your participation
> 3. I think there is another Australian research that uses semen to
> detect PCa (HCA-2), also with high accuracy.

Sy could do these things and participate in many other less established
tests, but why should he? He knows he has cancer. Under generally
accepted NCCN practice guidelines his choice not to treat the cancer is
considered prudent and the new PSA value only confirms that he made a
responsible choice: the cancer may not have any adverse impact the next
20 years, while side effects of any treatment are very likely to occur.
>
> In any case your previous rise to 3.17 PSA could be due to sex/
> ejaculation/biking, but the bottom line is you had a biopsy that says
> adenocarcinoma, so now you have to resolve what that means. If
> you're lucky, the first analysis was in error, then you can continue
> your watchful waiting.

As to the significance of free PSA, see

http://tinyurl.com/2ve7kp

Neither has PSA density been found to be an improved marker over serum PSA.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/489253_1

Note that neither Sy's former nor his current PSA value, taken by
itself, would lead a doctor to recommend a biopsy in the first place
(table II).

Note further that most of the ng members that ridiculed Sy's choice,
suggesting that he was out of his mind not to get rid of "the beast
inside" with his numbers are now remarkably silent. That's considerable
progress.
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