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From: Marilyn Bachmann on 6 Oct 2005 20:44 I still have hypo symptoms, even though labs say I should be hunky dory. My next approach is...I want to totally suppress TSH and then take enough T3 until I feel well. Anybody else doing this? ..
From: Marilyn on 7 Oct 2005 00:00 I did not set out to purposefully accomplish what you are asking about, but essentially that is the result that has helped me. Though I am taking the combination therapy of Armour and Unithroid. Are you thinking of taking T3 only? My TSH is nearly suppressed at .06, I take 1 grain Armour with 50 mcg. T4. I'm closer to feeling well than I've been in a long time. We took this approach because my TSH/FT4 labs looked like I should feel perfect, but I felt lousy. I am hypo due to Hashimoto's. Marilyn (Beattie) "Marilyn Bachmann" <mmbachmann(a)shaw.ca> wrote in message news:sxj1f.100467$1i.94728(a)pd7tw2no... > I still have hypo symptoms, even though labs say I should be hunky dory. My > next approach is...I want to totally suppress TSH and then take enough T3 > until I feel well. Anybody else doing this? > > . > >
From: Kevin G. Rhoads on 7 Oct 2005 08:42 >I want to totally suppress TSH and then take enough T3 >until I feel well. Anybody else doing this? Interesting approach -- I think only ThyCa's would be doing anything similar. Dr. Toft believes that so long as serum (i.e., blood) levels for T3 are very normal (my paraphrase, which I interpret to mean that they fall near the center of the normal ranges, e.g., 30% to 70%, or something like that) -- so long as serum levels of T3 are very normal, the TSH can be suppressed and the T4 either high in range or even slightly out of range on the high side and there is no danger. Since Dr. Toft is rather conservative in most things, and has decades of clinical experience to go along with his research, I would tend to trust his opinion here. CLEARLY, if any hyper- symptoms show up, you need to back down the dose immediately and perhaps do beta blockers (e.g., propranolol (?sp)). If you proceed, let us know what is happening. And be careful, we'd hate to lose you to an unnecessary heart attack. I do wish they'd actually start testing using TSH and other lab tests for setting dose rather than just running on plausible assumptions, which leaves us only the opinions of experts as our guidelines. But it ain't gonna happen soon. <sigh> Sincerely Kevin
From: Marilyn Bachmann on 7 Oct 2005 20:31 his was my April lab test results... TSH .86 ref range .4- 5.5 Free T4 <3 range 9-24 Free T3 3.9 2.2-5.4 This was on 35mcg time release T3 2X/day I do not seem to react well to T4 and I don't know why. It turned myself into a guinea pig, a la Lowe, and increased my T3 by 5 ?g increments until I get up to 110 ?g of time release T3. I have MS but am convinced that many of my symptoms, including every other day stiffness is related to a dysfunctional pituitary/thyroid feedback dysfunction. When I totally suppressed my TSH and took enough T3 I had some miraculous symptom remission. But my free T3 levels were approximately 6.2 and my doctor at that time flipped out and would not support my approach even though allopathic medicine has nothing to offer me. I had no symptoms of being hyper, I just had energy and vastly increased mobility and could do things that I have not been able to do in years. All my lower back pain disappeared, stiffness alleviated to an amazing degree, fine hand motor coordination came back and I could type again. I could lift my feet properly. My heart beat increased to 85 and this did feel a little fast, even though Raymond Peat says that 85 is actually optimal. This of course has haunted me and lately I decided to try this again, only this time I found a naturopath that has agreed to monitor me while I try this again. I did not do well on Armour, or Synthroid, or levothyroxine... T4 seems to turn my feet purple and give me hypo symptoms. I don't know why I am such a difficult case, all I know is that MS symptoms and thyroid symptoms seem to be one and the same. Every symptom of MS can be found on a thyroid symptom list. I no longer believe the standard MS explanations, because if I had permanent nerve damage it would not be able to suddenly regain function simply by increasing T3. I am willing to take the risk, which I don't consider to be great, of increasing T3 and seeing what happens. Bodybuilders seem to take large amounts of Cytomel and survive. I found Daisy's recent post on how she was in a wheelchair due to stiffness very interesting... I had so much flexibility return when I did the high T3 that I am determined to investigate this whole phenomenon once again and if I have function return again, I will do anything to maintain my supply of T3... stay tuned... "Kevin G. Rhoads" <kgrhoads(a)alum.mit.edu> wrote in message news:43466D2F.E6480DEB(a)alum.mit.edu... > >I want to totally suppress TSH and then take enough T3 >>until I feel well. Anybody else doing this? > > Interesting approach -- I think only ThyCa's would be doing anything > similar. > > Dr. Toft believes that so long as serum (i.e., blood) levels for T3 are > very normal (my paraphrase, > which I interpret to mean that they fall near the center of the normal > ranges, e.g., 30% to 70%, > or something like that) -- so long as serum levels of T3 are very normal, > the TSH can be suppressed > and the T4 either high in range or even slightly out of range on the high > side and there is no > danger. Since Dr. Toft is rather conservative in most things, and has > decades of clinical experience > to go along with his research, I would tend to trust his opinion here. > CLEARLY, if any hyper- > symptoms show up, you need to back down the dose immediately and perhaps > do beta blockers (e.g., > propranolol (?sp)). > > If you proceed, let us know what is happening. And be careful, we'd hate > to lose you to an unnecessary > heart attack. I do wish they'd actually start testing using TSH and other > lab tests for setting dose > rather than just running on plausible assumptions, which leaves us only > the opinions of experts as our > guidelines. But it ain't gonna happen soon. <sigh> > > Sincerely > Kevin
From: Cavaliers on 7 Oct 2005 20:44
Hi Marilyn, I am taking NT plus t3 at this time. My TSH has been suppressed in the past and recent results are at the bottom of my post. I guess this is similar to your question. You write you are going to 'totally suppress TSH" (how?) and "then take enough T3 ..." -- to feel well? Why? Maybe when your TSH is suppressed you will feel well. I don't think a TSH result is much use. A normal thyroid is 'governed' by the pituitary. Since I am now hypo, it doesn't matter what the pituitary attempts to tell the thyroid what to do, does it? I don't understand the validity of the TSH test for a person who is taking thyroid hormone supplements. I asked questions about the addition of Cytomel recently, here, and am still working on an adjustment. One of deT's comments was: "that the ratio of T4 to T3 is as low as (he) would go". I have only taken a very small dose of Cytomel so far for a month. Although other posters here suggested that I take a higher dose of NT, clearly without a Rx that's not possible. So, at this time, I go with my doctor's suggestion. I am happy that he is listening to me and trying to find a way to make me feel well. At this time I am not as tired and memory recall is improved. Kindest regards, Diana BTW endo said the difference is these blood test results was minimal and that these kind of differences could occur from one hour/day to the next. In other words, I am reasonably 'stable'. TSH 0.47 (last year 0.17) Range 0.38 - 5.5 Free t4 10.6 (last year 11.6) Range 10.5 - 20.0 Free t3 3.67 (last year 5.81) Range 3.5 - 6. "Marilyn Bachmann" <mmbachmann(a)shaw.ca> wrote in message news:sxj1f.100467$1i.94728(a)pd7tw2no... >I still have hypo symptoms, even though labs say I should be hunky dory. >My next approach is...I want to totally suppress TSH and then take enough >T3 until I feel well. Anybody else doing this? |