Need on-line kidney-bladder-prostate diagrams
in [Kidney Failure]
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From: problems on 22 Feb 2008 08:24 Hi, I though the kidneys fed into the top of the bladder, which feeds out at the bottom into the urethra, which passes next to the prostate. So that viewing by cystoscopy cannot see the prostate, which is outside of the urethra. Like if I'm standing on the hose pipe and squashing it, you can't see my shoe-size by viewing inside the hose-pipe ? The uro-doc tells me that the prostate lobes are visible by cystoscopy. I need to see a diagram/images ?! Please point me to an on-line version/s. Thanks for any feedback.
From: Peter on 22 Feb 2008 18:20 problems(a)gmail wrote: > Hi, > > I though the kidneys fed into the top of the bladder, which feeds > out at the bottom into the urethra, which passes next to the > prostate. So that viewing by cystoscopy cannot see the prostate, > which is outside of the urethra. Like if I'm standing on the hose > pipe and squashing it, you can't see my shoe-size by viewing inside > the hose-pipe ? > The uro-doc tells me that the prostate lobes are visible by > cystoscopy. > > I need to see a diagram/images ?! > Please point me to an on-line version/s. > > Thanks for any feedback. The prostatic urethra is "formed by the prostate" (imagine the prostate being a ball and then drilling a hole through the ball (the hole being the prostatic urethra), and the hole is surrounded by lateral lobes and a median lobe, etc). The urethra can not be thought of as a separate hose or organ like your intestines or a garden hose. It is often referred to as a tube or canal or duct, and similar words, but I used to get into all kinds of arguments about that in the BPH newsgroup. Google "prostate" under images in google. There are other canals in the body like the ears and nasal passages that are not tubes per se if you follow me. The prostatic urethra runs directly from the bladder neck through the prostate (the prostatic urethra) and then through the penis. The hole coming out at the end of your penis is not a separate tube but is a canal or duct that is surrounded by various types/layers of tissue in your penis. In other words when a uro looks at your prostatic urethra and bladder neck, and then on into your bladder, he is seeing the lobes and the tissues in the prostate that form the prostatic urethra and he would be able to identify any strictures or other blockages or abnormalities. I hope you were able to understand my explanation, and it helped a little...Pete
From: problems on 25 Feb 2008 19:06 problems(a)gmail wrote: > > I though the kidneys fed into the top of the bladder, which feeds > > out at the bottom into the urethra, which passes next to the > > prostate. So that viewing by cystoscopy cannot see the prostate, > > which is outside of the urethra. Like if I'm standing on the hose > > pipe and squashing it, you can't see my shoe-size by viewing inside > > the hose-pipe ? > > The uro-doc tells me that the prostate lobes are visible by > > cystoscopy. > > > I need to see a diagram/images ?! > > Please point me to an on-line version/s. Pete wrote: > The prostatic urethra is "formed by the prostate" (imagine the > prostate being a ball and then drilling a hole through the ball > (the hole being the prostatic urethra), and the hole is surrounded > by lateral lobes and a median lobe, etc). The urethra can not be > thought of as a separate hose or organ like your intestines or a > garden hose. It is often referred to as a tube or canal or duct, > and similar words, but I used to get into all kinds of arguments > about that in the BPH newsgroup. Google "prostate" under images > in google. There are other canals in the body like the ears and > nasal passages that are not tubes per se if you follow me. > > The prostatic urethra runs directly from the bladder neck through > the prostate (the prostatic urethra) and then through the penis. The old med book that I found shows that the prostatic urethra joins the 'bladder-urethra' some ways AFTER the bladder. So going up with a cystoscope to the bladder would by-pass the prostatic urethra 'turn-off'. And even if the cystoscope turned into the prostatic urethra, it can't see what is OUTSIDE the tubes and vessels. Perhaps at a more subtle level, the size and shape of the hand pushing in the balloon can be 'seen' from inside the balloon, by the indentation seen from inside ? > The hole coming out at the end of your penis is not a separate > tube but is a canal or duct that is surrounded by various > types/layers of tissue in your penis. In other words when a uro > looks at your prostatic urethra and bladder neck, and then on > into your bladder, he is seeing the lobes and the tissues in > the prostate that form the prostatic urethra and he would be > able to identify any strictures or other blockages or > abnormalities. Yes, but my question was can he see that the prostrate is 80 gm ? AFAIK you can see the bladder size from 'inside' because it's just a vessel; but you can't see kidney nor prostrate volumes via their outlet-tubes. Thanks
From: Peter on 26 Feb 2008 15:40 problems(a)gmail wrote: > problems(a)gmail wrote: >>> I though the kidneys fed into the top of the bladder, which feeds >>> out at the bottom into the urethra, which passes next to the >>> prostate. So that viewing by cystoscopy cannot see the prostate, >>> which is outside of the urethra. Like if I'm standing on the hose >>> pipe and squashing it, you can't see my shoe-size by viewing inside >>> the hose-pipe ? >>> The uro-doc tells me that the prostate lobes are visible by >>> cystoscopy. >> >>> I need to see a diagram/images ?! >>> Please point me to an on-line version/s. > > Pete wrote: >> The prostatic urethra is "formed by the prostate" (imagine the >> prostate being a ball and then drilling a hole through the ball >> (the hole being the prostatic urethra), and the hole is surrounded >> by lateral lobes and a median lobe, etc). The urethra can not be >> thought of as a separate hose or organ like your intestines or a >> garden hose. It is often referred to as a tube or canal or duct, >> and similar words, but I used to get into all kinds of arguments >> about that in the BPH newsgroup. Google "prostate" under images >> in google. There are other canals in the body like the ears and >> nasal passages that are not tubes per se if you follow me. >> >> The prostatic urethra runs directly from the bladder neck through >> the prostate (the prostatic urethra) and then through the penis. > > The old med book that I found shows that the prostatic urethra > joins the 'bladder-urethra' some ways AFTER the bladder. You are very confused and I have no idea what a bladder urethra is. The outlet of the bladder is the bladder neck which is the internal sphincter so to speak - the external sphincter is at the vera montanum in the prostate. Your picture might not be accurate and just diagrammatic in nature. The prostate is directly adjacent to the bladder (I can't explain how it is connected tissue-wise) and the bladder neck continues directly into the prostatic urethra like I said. Try looking at this - http://www.4flomax.com/resources/images/hcp/basics/patho-diagram.gif Pete > So going up with a cystoscope to the bladder would by-pass the > prostatic urethra 'turn-off'. And even if the cystoscope turned > into the prostatic urethra, it can't see what is OUTSIDE the tubes > and vessels. Perhaps at a more subtle level, the size and shape > of the hand pushing in the balloon can be 'seen' from inside the > balloon, by the indentation seen from inside ? > >> The hole coming out at the end of your penis is not a separate >> tube but is a canal or duct that is surrounded by various >> types/layers of tissue in your penis. In other words when a uro >> looks at your prostatic urethra and bladder neck, and then on >> into your bladder, he is seeing the lobes and the tissues in >> the prostate that form the prostatic urethra and he would be >> able to identify any strictures or other blockages or >> abnormalities. > > Yes, but my question was can he see that the prostrate is 80 gm ? NO! - He is only looking at the inside of the drilled hole in the ball I referred to previously. But the uro can see strictures or other obstructions or anomalies in the prostatic urethra, like I said...Pete > AFAIK you can see the bladder size from 'inside' because it's > just a vessel; but you can't see kidney nor prostrate volumes via > their outlet-tubes. > > Thanks
From: problems on 1 Mar 2008 12:57
problems(a)gmail wrote: > The old med book that I found shows that the prostatic urethra > joins the 'bladder-urethra' some ways AFTER the bladder. Peter wrote: > You are very confused and I have no idea what a bladder urethra is. > It's the urethra from the bladder & not from the prostate. > The outlet of the bladder is the bladder neck which is the internal > sphincter so to speak - the external sphincter is at the vera > montanum in the prostate. > Your picture might not be accurate and just diagrammatic in nature. > The prostate is directly adjacent to the bladder (I can't explain > how it is connected tissue-wise) and the bladder neck continues > directly into the prostatic urethra like I said. > > Try looking at this - > http://www.4flomax.com/resources/images/hcp/basics/patho-diagram.gif > Good ! --snip -- > > Yes, but my question was can he see that the prostrate is 80 gm ? > > NO! - He is only looking at the inside of the drilled hole in the ball > I referred to previously. But the uro can see strictures or other > obstructions or anomalies in the prostatic urethra, like I said... That's why I'm querying the uro's claim. But if you think deeper and note on your recomended picture: we *CAN* see the 'upwelling' on the inside of the bladder, due to the enlarged prostate. Like from inside a balloon you can see the size of the pressing-down-finger by the size and shape of the indentation. So they aren't just bluffing if/when they write that the prostate is [approx] 80 gm. Thanks, I'm satisfied now. And I can now imagine that a prostecomy could cause incontinence. I used to think the prostate was away from the bladder on the way down & out. - crg. |