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From: Lee on 7 Nov 2007 10:58
I have a Rascal scooter and the headlight is pretty sad!
It is the same as a standard automotive driving light and backup light
and at Canadian Tire, is a fraction of the price that the Rascal dealer
charges.

I was thinking of replacing it with a halogen bulb version and then I
see that there are now LED based automotive lamps available.
I am trying now to find out the lumen rate of both the standard and the
new LED versions and if it is a substantial improvement, I'm going to
replace it.

BTW, while scooters are 24 volt, the controller and the control system,
lights, horn etc are just 12 volt, running off only one battery.

Has anyone else played around with upgrading their lighting in any way?

Regards
Lee in Toronto
From: Burgerman on 7 Nov 2007 17:21
"Lee" <glog(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:fgsnbg$qg1$1(a)registered.motzarella.org...
>I have a Rascal scooter and the headlight is pretty sad!
> It is the same as a standard automotive driving light and backup light and
> at Canadian Tire, is a fraction of the price that the Rascal dealer
> charges.
>
> I was thinking of replacing it with a halogen bulb version and then I see
> that there are now LED based automotive lamps available.
> I am trying now to find out the lumen rate of both the standard and the
> new LED versions and if it is a substantial improvement, I'm going to
> replace it.
>
> BTW, while scooters are 24 volt, the controller and the control system,
> lights, horn etc are just 12 volt, running off only one battery.
>
> Has anyone else played around with upgrading their lighting in any way?
>
> Regards
> Lee in Toronto



On most powerchairs (and I presume scooters) the 12v supply for the lighting
system comes from both batteries at 24 volt and is dropped to half power by
the same system that controls the speed.

It has to be this way or your batteries would get out of step with each
other and it would cause problems charging. Because while the total charge
voltage at peak would be 28.5 volts (for eg) one battery would be dragged
too high while the other would be undercharged when the charger switches to
"maintain or float" at the end of the charge cycle.

Your 12v is a square wave that runs at high frequency at 24v. That is that
it is on 50 percent of the time and off 50 percent of the time. It averages
12v but Its still 24v though at peak! So although it is fine on normal
tungsten incandesent lampsdue to the thermal mass of the filament it kills
LED lights fast! They are actually flashing on and of at high frequence at
double the voltage (actually double the current) that they were designed
for. The average light output stays the same of course. Been there already.
I fried several sets of LED lights (even though I expected they wouldnt
last) I had to try it... They work for a while though.

You will need 24v ones if you still want to do it, and a big electrolytic
capacitor so that they dont run at half brightness if that makes any sense?

From: Lee on 8 Nov 2007 10:05
Burgerman wrote:
> "Lee" <glog(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:fgsnbg$qg1$1(a)registered.motzarella.org...
>> I have a Rascal scooter and the headlight is pretty sad!
>> It is the same as a standard automotive driving light and backup light
>> and at Canadian Tire, is a fraction of the price that the Rascal
>> dealer charges.
>>
>> I was thinking of replacing it with a halogen bulb version and then I
>> see that there are now LED based automotive lamps available.
>> I am trying now to find out the lumen rate of both the standard and
>> the new LED versions and if it is a substantial improvement, I'm going
>> to replace it.
>>
>> BTW, while scooters are 24 volt, the controller and the control
>> system, lights, horn etc are just 12 volt, running off only one battery.
>>
>> Has anyone else played around with upgrading their lighting in any way?
>>
>> Regards
>> Lee in Toronto
>
>
>
> On most powerchairs (and I presume scooters) the 12v supply for the
> lighting system comes from both batteries at 24 volt and is dropped to
> half power by the same system that controls the speed.
>
> It has to be this way or your batteries would get out of step with each
> other and it would cause problems charging. Because while the total
> charge voltage at peak would be 28.5 volts (for eg) one battery would be
> dragged too high while the other would be undercharged when the charger
> switches to "maintain or float" at the end of the charge cycle.
>
> Your 12v is a square wave that runs at high frequency at 24v. That is
> that it is on 50 percent of the time and off 50 percent of the time. It
> averages 12v but Its still 24v though at peak! So although it is fine on
> normal tungsten incandesent lampsdue to the thermal mass of the filament
> it kills LED lights fast! They are actually flashing on and of at high
> frequence at double the voltage (actually double the current) that they
> were designed for. The average light output stays the same of course.
> Been there already. I fried several sets of LED lights (even though I
> expected they wouldnt last) I had to try it... They work for a while
> though.
>
> You will need 24v ones if you still want to do it, and a big
> electrolytic capacitor so that they dont run at half brightness if that
> makes any sense?

Sooooooooooooooo, another good idea foiled by facts! <g>

Thanks for the technical information. Maybe I should be looking at
attaching an LED flashlight. I saw some high power ones this morning in
the store and the prices have come way down!

Regards
Lee in Toronto
From: Burgerman on 8 Nov 2007 12:13
"Lee" <glog(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:fgv8ke$mrc$1(a)registered.motzarella.org...
> Burgerman wrote:
>> "Lee" <glog(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:fgsnbg$qg1$1(a)registered.motzarella.org...
>>> I have a Rascal scooter and the headlight is pretty sad!
>>> It is the same as a standard automotive driving light and backup light
>>> and at Canadian Tire, is a fraction of the price that the Rascal dealer
>>> charges.
>>>
>>> I was thinking of replacing it with a halogen bulb version and then I
>>> see that there are now LED based automotive lamps available.
>>> I am trying now to find out the lumen rate of both the standard and the
>>> new LED versions and if it is a substantial improvement, I'm going to
>>> replace it.
>>>
>>> BTW, while scooters are 24 volt, the controller and the control system,
>>> lights, horn etc are just 12 volt, running off only one battery.
>>>
>>> Has anyone else played around with upgrading their lighting in any way?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Lee in Toronto
>>
>>
>>
>> On most powerchairs (and I presume scooters) the 12v supply for the
>> lighting system comes from both batteries at 24 volt and is dropped to
>> half power by the same system that controls the speed.
>>
>> It has to be this way or your batteries would get out of step with each
>> other and it would cause problems charging. Because while the total
>> charge voltage at peak would be 28.5 volts (for eg) one battery would be
>> dragged too high while the other would be undercharged when the charger
>> switches to "maintain or float" at the end of the charge cycle.
>>
>> Your 12v is a square wave that runs at high frequency at 24v. That is
>> that it is on 50 percent of the time and off 50 percent of the time. It
>> averages 12v but Its still 24v though at peak! So although it is fine on
>> normal tungsten incandesent lampsdue to the thermal mass of the filament
>> it kills LED lights fast! They are actually flashing on and of at high
>> frequence at double the voltage (actually double the current) that they
>> were designed for. The average light output stays the same of course.
>> Been there already. I fried several sets of LED lights (even though I
>> expected they wouldnt last) I had to try it... They work for a while
>> though.
>>
>> You will need 24v ones if you still want to do it, and a big electrolytic
>> capacitor so that they dont run at half brightness if that makes any
>> sense?
>
> Sooooooooooooooo, another good idea foiled by facts! <g>
>
> Thanks for the technical information. Maybe I should be looking at
> attaching an LED flashlight. I saw some high power ones this morning in
> the store and the prices have come way down!
>
> Regards
> Lee in Toronto


You "can" still do it, its just that you need a capacitor and a 24v light.

From: Pete on 8 Nov 2007 18:28
Lee wrote:
> I have a Rascal scooter and the headlight is pretty sad!
> It is the same as a standard automotive driving light and backup light
> and at Canadian Tire, is a fraction of the price that the Rascal dealer
> charges.
>
> I was thinking of replacing it with a halogen bulb version and then I
> see that there are now LED based automotive lamps available.
> I am trying now to find out the lumen rate of both the standard and the
> new LED versions and if it is a substantial improvement, I'm going to
> replace it.
>
> BTW, while scooters are 24 volt, the controller and the control system,
> lights, horn etc are just 12 volt, running off only one battery.
>
> Has anyone else played around with upgrading their lighting in any way?

Why not get two 12v LED automotive lamps and series wire them for 24v use.
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