Making Marriage Work: A new thread
in [Marriage]
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From: La Mer on 7 Nov 2005 13:03 That thread was far too long for me to find recent posts! Stephanie wrote: > "Tracey" <rbrancher2(a)aol.com> wrote in message > news:436F8BE1.9060706(a)aol.com... > > > > > > La Mer wrote: > > > >> I know that this concept is about perception and interpretation but for > >> me (and for him) is that when you choose to NOT do things that you know > >> your partner likes...well, can you take a leap here and see it as > >> somewhat passive aggressive? > > > > You *do* know that really doesn't make sense, right? That even though > > you acknowledge it's about perception and interpretation, you're > > still insisting that an inaction or inaction is *still* something > > other than what it could be? > > > > Me, I think Doug's right about the whole resentment thing at this > > point and it's probably been that way for a long time. My husband > > has certain actions and inactions that drive me nuts at times and > > I'm *certain* that I have certain actions and inactions that drive > > *him* crazy at times. When things are going very well between us, > > those things don't really register for either of us. But when > > there are other things that are bugging us, those same actions/ > > inactions can take on a meaning totally different than in the > > good times. For me, at least, I sometimes have to make a conscious > > effort NOT to put a negative spin on things that I wouldn't nor- > > mally. > > > > > Same here as I sit here still red from having called DH a jerk for something > completely normal because I was annoyed at soemthing else... that he > actually had not done. I put a double negative spin on something simply > because we hadn't talked all day. That's what I mean when I sometimes make comments like I don't think that I'm the type that should be married. I know that being single is far from perfect and it is lonely at times. With marriage though, you have this constant STUFF to deal with daily. I guess it goes back to the positive/negative ratio. Which one outweighs the other determines the happiness factor in your marriage I guess. Seems to me that many regulars in here have far more positive than negative. My million dollar question is, is it because you're better skilled? Is it because you were lucky? Is it because you're made for marriage? I keep feeling like; if I can't make my 2nd marriage work, then there is something fundamentally wrong with me. > > >
From: Stephanie on 7 Nov 2005 13:24 "La Mer" <judgedl(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:1131386618.250356.112350(a)g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > That thread was far too long for me to find recent posts! > > Stephanie wrote: >> "Tracey" <rbrancher2(a)aol.com> wrote in message >> news:436F8BE1.9060706(a)aol.com... >> > >> > >> > La Mer wrote: >> > >> >> I know that this concept is about perception and interpretation but >> >> for >> >> me (and for him) is that when you choose to NOT do things that you >> >> know >> >> your partner likes...well, can you take a leap here and see it as >> >> somewhat passive aggressive? >> > >> > You *do* know that really doesn't make sense, right? That even though >> > you acknowledge it's about perception and interpretation, you're >> > still insisting that an inaction or inaction is *still* something >> > other than what it could be? >> > >> > Me, I think Doug's right about the whole resentment thing at this >> > point and it's probably been that way for a long time. My husband >> > has certain actions and inactions that drive me nuts at times and >> > I'm *certain* that I have certain actions and inactions that drive >> > *him* crazy at times. When things are going very well between us, >> > those things don't really register for either of us. But when >> > there are other things that are bugging us, those same actions/ >> > inactions can take on a meaning totally different than in the >> > good times. For me, at least, I sometimes have to make a conscious >> > effort NOT to put a negative spin on things that I wouldn't nor- >> > mally. >> > >> >> >> Same here as I sit here still red from having called DH a jerk for >> something >> completely normal because I was annoyed at soemthing else... that he >> actually had not done. I put a double negative spin on something simply >> because we hadn't talked all day. > > That's what I mean when I sometimes make comments like I don't think > that I'm the type that should be married. I know that being single is > far from perfect and it is lonely at times. With marriage though, you > have this constant STUFF to deal with daily. See this is where the good times/ bad times thing comes into play. We were having a bad day nestled within a very good overall scene lately. Therefore this was a near non-issue. He did not even stew. I found him whereever he was, said I was sorry for calling him a jerk and that is was uncalled for. He said he thought it was uncalled for too, apology accepted. And we went on with our lives, deciding to modify our chores so we could work in the same room. > I guess it goes back to > the positive/negative ratio. Which one outweighs the other determines > the happiness factor in your marriage I guess. Seems to me that many > regulars in here have far more positive than negative. My million > dollar question is, is it because you're better skilled? Is it because > you were lucky? Is it because you're made for marriage? > For us, skill has been a huge deal in successfully getting to this place. I would say learning how to disagree and even fight constructively was something that took a long time to learn. We both have it down a lot better now. We rarely have big fights, and truth be told those only happen when I loose my mind about something else and become emotional and unreasonable. This does not happen THAT often. And luckily he can tell when it's happening just by looking at me. We both have a keep your eye on the prize kind of attitude. We find it easy to forgive, and to let stupid little things go. We both have an easy time believing the other person's interpretation of what they meant by what they did and not expect them to do things always the way the other wants it. I don't know what things like "made for marriage" mean. There was definitely a large element of luck for us as well. We were both immature shits when we got married. We could have unluckily decided to grow up on radically different schedules. But luckily that did not happen. We also are both lucky enough to come from families whose parents were in life-long super loving relationships, very happy relationships. So our base expectation was one of harmony, and we learned some skills for achieving that from our parents. > I keep feeling like; if I can't make my 2nd marriage work, then there > is something fundamentally wrong with me. I doubt that very much. Life in general, and marriage in particular, is just freakin' hard.
From: jwb on 7 Nov 2005 13:27 "La Mer" <judgedl(a)gmail.com> wrote in message > That's what I mean when I sometimes make comments like I don't think > that I'm the type that should be married. I know that being single is > far from perfect and it is lonely at times. With marriage though, you > have this constant STUFF to deal with daily. I guess it goes back to > the positive/negative ratio. Which one outweighs the other determines > the happiness factor in your marriage I guess. Seems to me that many > regulars in here have far more positive than negative. My million > dollar question is, is it because you're better skilled? Is it because > you were lucky? Is it because you're made for marriage? for me, it was finally being happy with myself as a person, and reaching the place I wanted to be in my life.
From: Ellie on 7 Nov 2005 13:49 La Mer wrote: > That's what I mean when I sometimes make comments like I don't think > that I'm the type that should be married. I know that being single is > far from perfect and it is lonely at times. With marriage though, you > have this constant STUFF to deal with daily. I guess it goes back to > the positive/negative ratio. Which one outweighs the other determines > the happiness factor in your marriage I guess. Seems to me that many > regulars in here have far more positive than negative. My million > dollar question is, is it because you're better skilled? Is it because > you were lucky? Is it because you're made for marriage? All of the above and more! I can only offer my personal experience as one who considers herself very happy with her marriage. The short answer is that "positive" and "negative" are not static and independent of our perception, so the question of "ratio" is rather meaningless. I'll first give an example from one of your own posts, and then a personal example from my own life. You said that you'd be willing to give up the nice things that your husband does in terms of "gifts" in exchange for the more daily little things like making you coffee or some such. Now, from what you have said before I think that if this actually happened you'd be very upset! You have said (or implied) that gift giving *is* important to you. Right now, because he is doing this, though you acknowledge it, you put a low "weight" on it when you compare it with things that he doesn't do. If the behavior pattern would reverse, then the lack of gifts would weigh a ton in your negative bin! Furthermore, you put a huge negative weight on what he doesn't do by attributing motives to them. You say he "chooses" not to do them in a passive-aggressive way. I am a relatively neat person, my husband is quite sloppy (unfortunately our sons have inherited this too!). A typical behavior of his is that he comes to the kitchen, takes a box of cereal or whatever from the cabinet, makes a bowl for himself, leaves the cabinet door open, cereal box (and some crumbs) on the counter, silverware drawer open, and leaves the kitchen. I clean and neaten up the kitchen, only to find it in that state within a short period of time as soon as one of the guys step in for something. Early on in our marriage I used to talk to him about this, tell him that it's not difficult to close the cabinet doors and put things back, etc, etc, over and over! He would be careful one or two times but go back to old habits. It drove me crazy. It was easy to feel that he is indifferent to my feelings and needs, if he is not willing to make "such a small effort" to make me happy. I am forever grateful to whatever prevented me from internalizing that message. Because as it turned out he is extremely concerned about me and my feelings, and as I learned later, he would go to great lengths to please me, but what *seemed* to be so simple, basic, and easy in my mind happenes to be something that just isn't a part of his makeup. It would've taken enormous effort on his part to force himself to remember this little routine of neatening up everytime he wanted something in the kitchen. I still don't understand why it is that way for him but I don't care! Yes, I still do get annoyed occasionally when I step in the messy kitchen, but it is *only* about messy kitchen and nothing else. No resentment, no reading more into it, no interpreting it as deliberate or passive aggressive, no nothing! In fact sometimes I call him to neaten it up, and he says "oops" and does it right away with an apologetic smile. That is because he, too, hasn't developed resentment of me for fussing over something that he doesn't understand why should be important. Of course my experience is mine, and I'm not saying your husband or relationship is similar. I am just offering a different way of looking at things and interpreting your husband's behavior. I am putting on the table a thought that your husband does care about your feelings and wants to do what pleases you, but his mind doesn't work like yours. If this is a possibility, then it behooves you to not stand firm on your spot and judge his behavior with your standards alone!
From: Radha on 7 Nov 2005 13:47
La Mer wrote: > > That's what I mean when I sometimes make comments like I don't think > that I'm the type that should be married. I know that being single is > far from perfect and it is lonely at times. With marriage though, you > have this constant STUFF to deal with daily. I guess it goes back to > the positive/negative ratio. Which one outweighs the other determines > the happiness factor in your marriage I guess. Seems to me that many > regulars in here have far more positive than negative. My million > dollar question is, is it because you're better skilled? Is it because > you were lucky? Is it because you're made for marriage? > > I keep feeling like; if I can't make my 2nd marriage work, then there > is something fundamentally wrong with me. I don't think that you are not built for marriage but more that you don't know any techniques to keep marriage happy. You need to learn what needs are important to your wife and meet then. You need to teach your wife how to meet your needs. I think it's just something you need to make a priority. Try http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ Radha |