Iron In Type 2 Diabetes
in [Kidney Diseases]
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From: J666 on 11 Jun 2008 19:50 On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:11:02 -0500, Paul T. Holland wrote (in article <4850327B.44898301(a)bellatlantic.net>): > understand the thought, but he's really a hoot when read for actual > content. > > be well > > paul > > activ wrote: >> > >> Don not feed idiots like ironjustice But with little change, he is like an iron-ing bored. He does really make an easy target which at least is a pleasant change of pace from Chungie. The 2PDer DIET does seem to ignore iron content. In Japan the legislature is called Diet and not Approach
From: Paul T. Holland on 11 Jun 2008 20:32 indeed! J666 wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:11:02 -0500, Paul T. Holland wrote > (in article <4850327B.44898301(a)bellatlantic.net>): > > > understand the thought, but he's really a hoot when read for actual > > content. > > > > be well > > > > paul > > > > activ wrote: > >> > > > >> Don not feed idiots like ironjustice > > But with little change, he is like an iron-ing bored. He does really make an > easy target which at least is a pleasant change of pace from Chungie. > > The 2PDer DIET does seem to ignore iron content. In Japan the legislature is > called Diet and not Approach
From: ironjustice on 11 Jun 2008 21:24 On Jun 11, 1:09 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: long winded whack .. << Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
From: ironjustice on 11 Jun 2008 21:25 On Jun 11, 2:07 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: long winded whack << Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > well tom - i read that you are still inventing quotes and thus > misrepresenting what others have actually written - really a shame that > you don't seem able to simply state your case without resorting to > fabrication > > with that said, i also notice that you have - after significant prodding > from others - provided folk with a 'connection' to at least one of the > cross-posted groups from your original post. > > i would be remiss in not commenting that you have in fact posted a > legitimate study, albeit an old [2003] one that many have already seen - > > and also that while valid as a 'connection' it in no way addresses > 'causality'. as such, it is applicable in only a peripheral [pun > intended] way. > > of course you don't seem to be aware of the earlier kuseife clinic study > which showed the issue first, but what the heck, there is a whole lot > you don't know > > for example, there is dellon's work on differentiating diabetic muscle > aches vs the more generalized 'classic' fibro symtomolgy, Dellon AL, > Shookster L, Maloney CT, Ducic I.: Diagnosis of compressive neuropathies > in patients with fibromyalgia. > or, Fibromyalgia and Tinels Sign in the Foot, by Shookster, L, Falke, > G.I., Ducic, I, Maloney, C.T., and Dellon, A.L., volume 94:400-403, > 2004. > > perhaps, if you weren't so fixated, you might have known of st. amand's > study on the relationship of hypoglcenia as it relates to what the study > you cited shows > > shucks, you might even have been able to discuss the known association > between fibro, diabetes, and magnesium deficiencies, or the aberrant > insulin-adrenaline reaction, > > as has been pointed out by others, you are, mostly, just regurgitating > partially understood information, gleaned by web searching, with a > singular objective in mind. as a result, you position yourself as an > overbearing, johnny-one-note, who argues about what folk 'didn't' say, > invents statements that don't exist, and can't even state his own > thoughts without attempting to demean others > > and you complain about being mocked... > > > > ironjustice wrote: > > > On Jun 10, 6:53 pm, Alan <a...(a)usuk.com> wrote: I guess "eat me" > > means you lost this one. << > > > Seeing that you .. figure .. "he lost this one" .. means .. ? > > > You share the same empty .. haid .. as Holland .. > > > You don't know the simplest things about fibromyalgia / IE: "diabetes > > and fibromyalgia are not related" .. but you figure you can attempt to > > speak to .. my threads .. ? > > > You are stupid .. too stupid for my threads .. whch are **science** > > based .. > > > Sooo .. stick with making mudpies .. and try to lose some of that .. > > weight .. > > > Now if YOU would have done the simple search of "fibromyalgia and > > diabetes" .. I may not have called you a fat slob .. > > > "Clinical association between obesity, diabetes mellitus and > > fibromyalgia." > > > Fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus. > > Tishler M, Smorodin T, Vazina-Amit M, Ramot Y, Koffler M, Fishel B. > > Department of Medicine 'B' and the Rheumatology Service, Assaf Harofe > > Medical Center, Zerifin, Israel. tish...(a)asaf.health.gov.il > > > OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to evaluate the prevalence of > > fibromyalgia (FM) in patients with diabetes mellitus (DM). SUBJECTS: > > The study included 100 consecutive unselected patients with DM > > attending our diabetes clinic. Patients were divided into two groups: > > 45 patients with type 1 diabetes and 55 patients with type 2 diabetes. > > A group of 50 healthy hospital staff members served as controls. The > > FM was diagnosed according to the 1990 American College of > > Rheumatology criteria. Counts of 18 tender points were performed by > > thumb palpation and assessed by dolorimeter. Routine biochemical tests > > and levels of HbA(1c) were recorded in each patient. RESULTS: The main > > outcome measure was the association of FM with DM. Fibromyalgia was > > diagnosed in 17 patients (17%) with DM and in only one (2%) healthy > > control ( P=0.008). No differences in patients were noted in the > > prevalence of FM between type 1 and type 2 diabetes (18.5% vs 15.5%, > > respectively). Patients with both FM and DM had significantly higher > > levels of HbA(1c) than DM patients without FM (9.2+/-1.1% vs > > 6.4+/-1.5%) ( P<0.05). Similarly, the numbers of tender points, pain > > scores, and the prevalence of sleep disturbances, fatigue, and > > headaches were higher in this group of patients. A significant > > correlation was observed between the numbers of tender points and > > HbA(1c) levels in the DM patients with FM ( r=0.72, P=0.027). > > CONCLUSION: Fibromyalgia is a common finding in patients with types 1 > > and 2 diabetes, and its prevalence could be related to control of the > > disease. As with other diabetes complications, FM might be prevented > > by improved control of blood glucose levels. > > > PMID: 12756495 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > ---------------------------- > > Recenti Prog Med. 2003 Apr;94(4):163-5.Links > > [Prevalence of fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus and obesity][Article > > in Italian] > > > Patucchi E, Fatati G, Puxeddu A, Coaccioli S. > > Clinica Medica e Scuola di Specializzazione in Reumatologia, > > Università di Perugia, Azienda Ospedaliera Santa Maria, Terni. > > > To determine the prevalence of fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus and > > obesity, 121 consecutive patients have been observed: 27 with obesity > > (6 males and 21 females; mean age 57 years, range 20-57; mean body > > mass index [BMI] 34); 88 with type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM; 40 males > > and 48 females; mean age 63 years, range 44-78; mean BMI 28.8; mean > > glycated haemoglobin [HbA1c] in the last year 8.3%); 6 with type 1 > > diabetes mellitus (T1DM; 2 males and 4 females; mean age 52 years, > > range 26-76; mean BMI 24.5; mean HbA1c < 7%). An original > > questionnaire has been proposed (answer yes/not) as follows: 1) > > chronic (more than 3 months) and diffuse musculoskeletal pain; 2) > > sleep disturbances; 3) generalized fatigue; 4) paresthesias at the > > extremities; 5) swollen impression at hands and feet; 6) symptoms > > referred to irritable bowel syndrome; 7) headache; 8) symptoms change > > related with environmental climatic variations and/or exercise. A > > chronic and diffuse musculoskeletal pain has been reported by 62% of > > patients as well as in 9% of patients 11/18 positive tender points > > have been documented. In the patients with a BMI less that 26 the > > diagnosis of fibromyalgia was negative. Our data seem to reveal the > > presence of a significant clinical association between obesity, > > diabetes mellitus and fibromyalgia. > > > PMID: 12677786 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > > Who loves ya. > > Tom > > > Jesus Was A Vegetarian! > >http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh > > > Man Is A Herbivore! > >http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 > > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > >http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > > ironjustice wrote: > > > > On Jun 10, 3:38 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> > > > > wrote: snip << > > > > > Long winded whack stroking himself .. > > > > > I see you finally answered the question .. > > > > > Fibromyalgia is the group you have figure is not related to diabetes.. > > > > Now like I already pointed .. out .. you could not figure > > > > **conclusively** / "may belong in diabetes" .. an you figure you CAN > > > > figure out whether it belongs in .. fibromyalgia .. > > > > > Like I said .. you cannot .. evidenced by .. ? > > > > > The fact you are .. again .. whining how it "doesn't belong and is not > > > > related to diabetes" .. > > > > > Sooo .. let me synopsy what you said .. "diabetes is not related to > > > > fibromyalgia" .. > > > > > You are wrong .. > > > > > Need proof .. ? > > > > > Eat me .. > > > > I guess "eat me" means you lost this one. > > > > Go find someone else to bother > > > > Eat yourself.............- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: ironjustice on 11 Jun 2008 21:26
On Jun 11, 2:08 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote: long winded whack << Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk |