Iron In Type 2 Diabetes
in [Kidney Diseases]
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From: activ on 10 Jun 2008 22:09 On Jun 10, 8:53 pm, Alan <a...(a)usuk.com> wrote: > ironjustice wrote: > > On Jun 10, 3:38 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> > > wrote: snip << > > > Long winded whack stroking himself .. > > > I see you finally answered the question .. > > > Fibromyalgia is the group you have figure is not related to diabetes. > > Now like I already pointed .. out .. you could not figure > > **conclusively** / "may belong in diabetes" .. an you figure you CAN > > figure out whether it belongs in .. fibromyalgia .. > > > Like I said .. you cannot .. evidenced by .. ? > > > The fact you are .. again .. whining how it "doesn't belong and is not > > related to diabetes" .. > > > Sooo .. let me synopsy what you said .. "diabetes is not related to > > fibromyalgia" .. > > > You are wrong .. > > > Need proof .. ? > > > Eat me .. > > I guess "eat me" means you lost this one. > > Go find someone else to bother > > Eat yourself............. Don not feed idiots like ironjustice
From: ironjustice on 10 Jun 2008 22:17 On Jun 10, 6:53 pm, Alan <a...(a)usuk.com> wrote: I guess "eat me" means you lost this one. << Seeing that you .. figure .. "he lost this one" .. means .. ? You share the same empty .. haid .. as Holland .. You don't know the simplest things about fibromyalgia / IE: "diabetes and fibromyalgia are not related" .. but you figure you can attempt to speak to .. my threads .. ? You are stupid .. too stupid for my threads .. whch are **science** based .. Sooo .. stick with making mudpies .. and try to lose some of that .. weight .. Now if YOU would have done the simple search of "fibromyalgia and diabetes" .. I may not have called you a fat slob .. "Clinical association between obesity, diabetes mellitus and fibromyalgia." Fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus. Tishler M, Smorodin T, Vazina-Amit M, Ramot Y, Koffler M, Fishel B. Department of Medicine 'B' and the Rheumatology Service, Assaf Harofe Medical Center, Zerifin, Israel. tishler(a)asaf.health.gov.il OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to evaluate the prevalence of fibromyalgia (FM) in patients with diabetes mellitus (DM). SUBJECTS: The study included 100 consecutive unselected patients with DM attending our diabetes clinic. Patients were divided into two groups: 45 patients with type 1 diabetes and 55 patients with type 2 diabetes. A group of 50 healthy hospital staff members served as controls. The FM was diagnosed according to the 1990 American College of Rheumatology criteria. Counts of 18 tender points were performed by thumb palpation and assessed by dolorimeter. Routine biochemical tests and levels of HbA(1c) were recorded in each patient. RESULTS: The main outcome measure was the association of FM with DM. Fibromyalgia was diagnosed in 17 patients (17%) with DM and in only one (2%) healthy control ( P=0.008). No differences in patients were noted in the prevalence of FM between type 1 and type 2 diabetes (18.5% vs 15.5%, respectively). Patients with both FM and DM had significantly higher levels of HbA(1c) than DM patients without FM (9.2+/-1.1% vs 6.4+/-1.5%) ( P<0.05). Similarly, the numbers of tender points, pain scores, and the prevalence of sleep disturbances, fatigue, and headaches were higher in this group of patients. A significant correlation was observed between the numbers of tender points and HbA(1c) levels in the DM patients with FM ( r=0.72, P=0.027). CONCLUSION: Fibromyalgia is a common finding in patients with types 1 and 2 diabetes, and its prevalence could be related to control of the disease. As with other diabetes complications, FM might be prevented by improved control of blood glucose levels. PMID: 12756495 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] ---------------------------- Recenti Prog Med. 2003 Apr;94(4):163-5.Links [Prevalence of fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus and obesity][Article in Italian] Patucchi E, Fatati G, Puxeddu A, Coaccioli S. Clinica Medica e Scuola di Specializzazione in Reumatologia, Università di Perugia, Azienda Ospedaliera Santa Maria, Terni. To determine the prevalence of fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus and obesity, 121 consecutive patients have been observed: 27 with obesity (6 males and 21 females; mean age 57 years, range 20-57; mean body mass index [BMI] 34); 88 with type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM; 40 males and 48 females; mean age 63 years, range 44-78; mean BMI 28.8; mean glycated haemoglobin [HbA1c] in the last year 8.3%); 6 with type 1 diabetes mellitus (T1DM; 2 males and 4 females; mean age 52 years, range 26-76; mean BMI 24.5; mean HbA1c < 7%). An original questionnaire has been proposed (answer yes/not) as follows: 1) chronic (more than 3 months) and diffuse musculoskeletal pain; 2) sleep disturbances; 3) generalized fatigue; 4) paresthesias at the extremities; 5) swollen impression at hands and feet; 6) symptoms referred to irritable bowel syndrome; 7) headache; 8) symptoms change related with environmental climatic variations and/or exercise. A chronic and diffuse musculoskeletal pain has been reported by 62% of patients as well as in 9% of patients 11/18 positive tender points have been documented. In the patients with a BMI less that 26 the diagnosis of fibromyalgia was negative. Our data seem to reveal the presence of a significant clinical association between obesity, diabetes mellitus and fibromyalgia. PMID: 12677786 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh Man Is A Herbivore! http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > ironjustice wrote: > > On Jun 10, 3:38 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> > > wrote: snip << > > > Long winded whack stroking himself .. > > > I see you finally answered the question .. > > > Fibromyalgia is the group you have figure is not related to diabetes. > > Now like I already pointed .. out .. you could not figure > > **conclusively** / "may belong in diabetes" .. an you figure you CAN > > figure out whether it belongs in .. fibromyalgia .. > > > Like I said .. you cannot .. evidenced by .. ? > > > The fact you are .. again .. whining how it "doesn't belong and is not > > related to diabetes" .. > > > Sooo .. let me synopsy what you said .. "diabetes is not related to > > fibromyalgia" .. > > > You are wrong .. > > > Need proof .. ? > > > Eat me .. > > I guess "eat me" means you lost this one. > > Go find someone else to bother > > Eat yourself.............- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
From: Paul T. Holland on 11 Jun 2008 16:09 well gosh and by golly - i guess a bit more logic is necessary ironjustice wrote: > > On Jun 10, 3:38 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> > wrote: snip << > > Long winded whack stroking himself .. tell everyone tom, has your repeated [in many posts to many individuals] reference to self-gratification 'ever' worked as a 'scathing' retort with anyone you 'try' to belittle it with? in a diff. post i did mention that you can't have a claim to any high road when you write such to folk - not to mention that it only makes folk laugh at your inchoate ranting > > I see you finally answered the question .. logic alert: you see? really? it is really quite amazing that you would make such an 'illogical' claim since i did not, it is not logical for you to state that you can 'see' any such thing. your only 'logical' recourse is to quote the post in which you claim [guess] i did so > > Fibromyalgia is the group you have figure is not related to diabetes. continuation of logic: since i, or a family member, have one of the medical conditions represented in each of the cross-posted groups this thread is going out to - and, as a result i have frequented each of them for many years both as a contributor and a lurker reading for information, the simple fact is that you have no idea which group may, or may not be, the one from which i first responded, nor do you have any knowledge of which group each succeeding reply may, or may not, be originating from it therefore continues that any 'guess' [claim] that you have discerned which group i may or may not have intended to reference is false on your part quoting you: > Fibromyalgia is the group you have figure is not related to diabetes. it is also false that i 'figure' any one [or none] is 'related' to diabetes - what is 'true' is that you don't actually know 'what' i figure. what is true is that you had been asked to state the relationship that existed in your mind to have posted a specific study concerning diabetes in each of those other groups - without which, it is not unreasonable to feel that this was, in some cases, a contravention of the charter for a/the group > Now like I already pointed .. out .. you could not figure what you pointed out tom, was an incorrect 'inference' as a result of your misapprehension of what i 'did' write - not to mention your then snippage of my 'complete' thought as expressed by the totality of the actual sentence construction as i wrote it. > **conclusively** / "may belong in diabetes" .. tom oh tom - once again you 'snip' the full sentence, and thus do not convey the total thought, but be that as it may, you are still incorrect in your conclusion since you are unable to comprehend on your own; herewith you are provided with a simple review of the words you left in, per merriam-webster dictionary, showing the meaning of the words: 'may': "have permission or liberty to" 'belong': "to be suitable or appropriate" 'in': "used to indicate physical surroundings so you 'see' tom, logically, and "> **conclusively**", there wasn't any lack of certainty, or ambiguity ,in what i wrote - only in your incorrect interpretation. >an you figure you CAN continuation of logic lesson: this is a supposition on your part - as already determined, you have no idea at all, nor any way to determine since you haven't bothered to 'simply' ask another person a reasonable question sans accusation and innuendo. > figure out whether it belongs in .. fibromyalgia .. also supposition on your part - as shown, you have no way of knowing which group [if in fact it is only one of the many] i may, or may not, have been referring to. > > Like I said .. you cannot .. evidenced by .. ? the logic of what is actually written as opposed to what you have demonstrably 'inferred' > > The fact you are .. again .. whining how it "doesn't belong and is not > related to diabetes" .. lololololol why tom, i neither whined, nor wrote the above - yet you are the one who complains about how your writings are received and the words 'others' use to address you. as long as you continue to just make up quotes that another didn't actually write, why should you be viewed as worthy of respect? > > Sooo .. let me synopsy !lol! well, congratulations - you actually used it correctly >what you said .. was first, a query not a statement, then corrections of your false restatements of what i 'didn't' write in the first place >"diabetes is not related to > fibromyalgia" .. logic: if i never wrote it, you can't restate it as a synopsis...lololol > > You are wrong .. that would only be true if what you so earnestly tried to 'synopsy' actually reflected what i 'did' question and later state. since you haven't - i am not...lol > > Need proof .. ? well since i have already provided parsing and logic, no > > Eat me .. but tom! since you insist everyone should be a vegetarian - i find your request to be hypocritical > > Who loves ya. > Tom thanks for providing another bit of silliness tom, you're a hoot when you get like this.
From: Paul T. Holland on 11 Jun 2008 16:11 understand the thought, but he's really a hoot when read for actual content. be well paul activ wrote: > > Don not feed idiots like ironjustice
From: Paul T. Holland on 11 Jun 2008 17:07
well tom - i read that you are still inventing quotes and thus misrepresenting what others have actually written - really a shame that you don't seem able to simply state your case without resorting to fabrication with that said, i also notice that you have - after significant prodding from others - provided folk with a 'connection' to at least one of the cross-posted groups from your original post. i would be remiss in not commenting that you have in fact posted a legitimate study, albeit an old [2003] one that many have already seen - and also that while valid as a 'connection' it in no way addresses 'causality'. as such, it is applicable in only a peripheral [pun intended] way. of course you don't seem to be aware of the earlier kuseife clinic study which showed the issue first, but what the heck, there is a whole lot you don't know for example, there is dellon's work on differentiating diabetic muscle aches vs the more generalized 'classic' fibro symtomolgy, Dellon AL, Shookster L, Maloney CT, Ducic I.: Diagnosis of compressive neuropathies in patients with fibromyalgia. or, Fibromyalgia and Tinel�s Sign in the Foot, by Shookster, L, Falke, G.I., Ducic, I, Maloney, C.T., and Dellon, A.L., volume 94:400-403, 2004. perhaps, if you weren't so fixated, you might have known of st. amand's study on the relationship of hypoglcenia as it relates to what the study you cited shows shucks, you might even have been able to discuss the known association between fibro, diabetes, and magnesium deficiencies, or the aberrant insulin-adrenaline reaction, as has been pointed out by others, you are, mostly, just regurgitating partially understood information, gleaned by web searching, with a singular objective in mind. as a result, you position yourself as an overbearing, johnny-one-note, who argues about what folk 'didn't' say, invents statements that don't exist, and can't even state his own thoughts without attempting to demean others and you complain about being mocked... ironjustice wrote: > > On Jun 10, 6:53 pm, Alan <a...(a)usuk.com> wrote: I guess "eat me" > means you lost this one. << > > Seeing that you .. figure .. "he lost this one" .. means .. ? > > You share the same empty .. haid .. as Holland .. > > You don't know the simplest things about fibromyalgia / IE: "diabetes > and fibromyalgia are not related" .. but you figure you can attempt to > speak to .. my threads .. ? > > You are stupid .. too stupid for my threads .. whch are **science** > based .. > > Sooo .. stick with making mudpies .. and try to lose some of that .. > weight .. > > Now if YOU would have done the simple search of "fibromyalgia and > diabetes" .. I may not have called you a fat slob .. > > "Clinical association between obesity, diabetes mellitus and > fibromyalgia." > > Fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus. > Tishler M, Smorodin T, Vazina-Amit M, Ramot Y, Koffler M, Fishel B. > Department of Medicine 'B' and the Rheumatology Service, Assaf Harofe > Medical Center, Zerifin, Israel. tishler(a)asaf.health.gov.il > > OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to evaluate the prevalence of > fibromyalgia (FM) in patients with diabetes mellitus (DM). SUBJECTS: > The study included 100 consecutive unselected patients with DM > attending our diabetes clinic. Patients were divided into two groups: > 45 patients with type 1 diabetes and 55 patients with type 2 diabetes. > A group of 50 healthy hospital staff members served as controls. The > FM was diagnosed according to the 1990 American College of > Rheumatology criteria. Counts of 18 tender points were performed by > thumb palpation and assessed by dolorimeter. Routine biochemical tests > and levels of HbA(1c) were recorded in each patient. RESULTS: The main > outcome measure was the association of FM with DM. Fibromyalgia was > diagnosed in 17 patients (17%) with DM and in only one (2%) healthy > control ( P=0.008). No differences in patients were noted in the > prevalence of FM between type 1 and type 2 diabetes (18.5% vs 15.5%, > respectively). Patients with both FM and DM had significantly higher > levels of HbA(1c) than DM patients without FM (9.2+/-1.1% vs > 6.4+/-1.5%) ( P<0.05). Similarly, the numbers of tender points, pain > scores, and the prevalence of sleep disturbances, fatigue, and > headaches were higher in this group of patients. A significant > correlation was observed between the numbers of tender points and > HbA(1c) levels in the DM patients with FM ( r=0.72, P=0.027). > CONCLUSION: Fibromyalgia is a common finding in patients with types 1 > and 2 diabetes, and its prevalence could be related to control of the > disease. As with other diabetes complications, FM might be prevented > by improved control of blood glucose levels. > > PMID: 12756495 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > ---------------------------- > Recenti Prog Med. 2003 Apr;94(4):163-5.Links > [Prevalence of fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus and obesity][Article > in Italian] > > Patucchi E, Fatati G, Puxeddu A, Coaccioli S. > Clinica Medica e Scuola di Specializzazione in Reumatologia, > Universit� di Perugia, Azienda Ospedaliera Santa Maria, Terni. > > To determine the prevalence of fibromyalgia in diabetes mellitus and > obesity, 121 consecutive patients have been observed: 27 with obesity > (6 males and 21 females; mean age 57 years, range 20-57; mean body > mass index [BMI] 34); 88 with type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM; 40 males > and 48 females; mean age 63 years, range 44-78; mean BMI 28.8; mean > glycated haemoglobin [HbA1c] in the last year 8.3%); 6 with type 1 > diabetes mellitus (T1DM; 2 males and 4 females; mean age 52 years, > range 26-76; mean BMI 24.5; mean HbA1c < 7%). An original > questionnaire has been proposed (answer yes/not) as follows: 1) > chronic (more than 3 months) and diffuse musculoskeletal pain; 2) > sleep disturbances; 3) generalized fatigue; 4) paresthesias at the > extremities; 5) swollen impression at hands and feet; 6) symptoms > referred to irritable bowel syndrome; 7) headache; 8) symptoms change > related with environmental climatic variations and/or exercise. A > chronic and diffuse musculoskeletal pain has been reported by 62% of > patients as well as in 9% of patients 11/18 positive tender points > have been documented. In the patients with a BMI less that 26 the > diagnosis of fibromyalgia was negative. Our data seem to reveal the > presence of a significant clinical association between obesity, > diabetes mellitus and fibromyalgia. > > PMID: 12677786 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] > > Who loves ya. > Tom > > Jesus Was A Vegetarian! > http://tinyurl.com/2r2nkh > > Man Is A Herbivore! > http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3 > > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk > > ironjustice wrote: > > > On Jun 10, 3:38 pm, "Paul T. Holland" <pholl...(a)bellatlantic.net> > > > wrote: snip << > > > > > Long winded whack stroking himself .. > > > > > I see you finally answered the question .. > > > > > Fibromyalgia is the group you have figure is not related to diabetes. > > > Now like I already pointed .. out .. you could not figure > > > **conclusively** / "may belong in diabetes" .. an you figure you CAN > > > figure out whether it belongs in .. fibromyalgia .. > > > > > Like I said .. you cannot .. evidenced by .. ? > > > > > The fact you are .. again .. whining how it "doesn't belong and is not > > > related to diabetes" .. > > > > > Sooo .. let me synopsy what you said .. "diabetes is not related to > > > fibromyalgia" .. > > > > > You are wrong .. > > > > > Need proof .. ? > > > > > Eat me .. > > > > I guess "eat me" means you lost this one. > > > > Go find someone else to bother > > > > Eat yourself.............- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - |