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From: district on 16 Jul 2008 03:25
I don't know how common this is for Hypo patients in general - but I
definitely have this problem when I am too Hypo. I can't speak
clearly. It is *extremely* frustrating. I can't speak without
mumbling AND I can't recall words quickly enough to speak in an
intelligent way. The latter I attribute to the "brain fog" of being
hypo.

In terms of the mumbling - I often say that my tongue feels too big
for my mouth (does your son feel that way?) and I've actually read in
various books/posts that the tongue sometimes swells in hypothyroid
patients. I assume that this is the problem. It sure makes sense to
me.

So I would say he's underdosed on thyroid hormone.

I really wish you could figure out a way to get your son to a
doctor... it's dangerous to dose hormones without one........

On Jul 16, 2:42 am, paula <nom...(a)lspam.ca> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Used to post here but ..
> This is about my son: He was on OTC glandular thyroid. His symptoms were
> tremendously improved; incl. no more losing hair ( at age 24 he has a
> bald spot already for 6 years), losing weight, much less puffy face,
> energy and motivation really increased ( uni marks jumped up with lots
> less effort) etc. The most stunning was his 'mumbling' We finally were
> able to understand him.
> As we no longer are able to obtain that specific OTC thyroid, he went on
> 30 mg dessicated from me a day. He became even better till about 8
> months later when he became 'uncomfortable in his skin' restless, a bit
> agitated. So, I told him maybe his thyroid kicked in and to reduce to
> once every 2 days.
> He came to visit 4 weeks after he reduced. Wow, puffy face, gained
> weight and we just can't understand what he says. But, he now realizes
> that it is his tongue that gets twisted, and he is very frustrated that
> words he was able to say before, he now often just can't say.
>
> So, any idea's as to the tongue twisting part? Is that a sign of hypo?
> can it be a sign of something else which happen to be solved with
> thyroid? Thinking about adrenals ...
>
> Please, no advice to see a GP/ endo. No chance on seeing a GP as he
> doesn't have one and they are very hard to get where he lives ( major
> shortage), and getting in to see an endo, well, out here we need a
> referral from a GP.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give

From: Gail on 16 Jul 2008 09:26
Yes, the swollen, stiff tongue is a low thyroid symptoms - it's from
the fluid accumulation found generally in low thryoid which is not
just liquid, but actually a jelly like substance which makes the
tongue hard to move, makes the face look puffy, causes carpal tunnel,
generalised weight gain which isn't fat, and lots of other symptoms.
We have thyroid in the family and for one of my sisters it was the
swollen tongue symptom that made the penny drop. She was postnatal and
had had trouble with low milk supply and fatigue, but it was when she
read a list of low symptoms which included "accidentally biting the
tongue or insides of cheek" which had been happening to her, that she
decided to get it checked out and was found to have antibody levels
off the chart high.

Sounds like the dose reduction was too far. Your dosage need can
change from summer to winter and also if you're more active you need a
bit more, so maybe if he gets that 'uncomfortable in his skin' feeling
again he could try doing some exercise to use up the excess - don't
know if it would work, but this same sister I mentioned before has
managed to find a doctor who has okayed that she an extra 1/2 grain
just before she does her hours worth of exercise and also every second
day or so depending on her pulse rate.

It might help if you can get hold of some different sizes in the
dessicated thyroid - or maybe get some empty capsules and split your
30mg ones up so you can tailor a dose that suits him. You can order
the empty capsules and also equipment that makes them easier to fill,
over the net.
It might help him if he is prepared to do regular temperature and
pulse checks and read up on other low or high symptoms so he can be
more aware of how it is all affecting him.

Gail.

From: Alan B. Mac Farlane on 16 Jul 2008 09:45
in article
42302880-37a2-4d46-ae05-1bde1826d0df(a)l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com, district
at jtdistrict(a)gmail.com wrote on 7/16/08 12:25 AM:

> I really wish you could figure out a way to get your son to a
> doctor... it's dangerous to dose hormones without one........


People stuck in their toddler tantrum, and they are 'off' with their mom
inside, they hate their mom inside ...

well they are off with drugs, therapy, food, alcohol, philosophy, making
good medicine ... hate your mom you will be an addict and make koolaid for
breakfast filled with Grim Pills .... as you are a Pill Grim making bad
medicine.

Same for daddie ... hate dad, be off with dad ... and you will get a
divorce, your spouse will fox around the marriage, and your children will
die in front of your eyes. Hate your dad inside, you can not keep your
family together, and you make WEAK medicine.

Hate mom and dad ... you make weak bad medicine.

If you want to make good strong medicine ... you have to psychophysically be
in a place where you love your mom and dad inside, are FREE of their prison
of fear, and know how to pour love into your mom and dad wounds. Like you
would know how to do that to your own children .. but you can not treat them
like children.

There is a wit to this ... and it is on the other side of the bitter salty
tears.

The Defense Structure dont like Perpatrators ... so it keeps them DUMB ..
this is what is happening to Paula ... she will smarten up with the tears
coming out ... one way or the other sorry to say.

Just give it time ... she will kill her son cause she hates her dad so much
she could kill him.

This is emotional ... and the defense structure is creating this ... so as
to make healthy children.

This is why it makes you love who you love, and make babies with who you
make babies .. .making casualties, saddness and regrets.

Just look at that idiot in the White House if you want to see a child who
hates his dad and mom ... and making a mess of all they love ... it is what
diaper poop wall wipers do in getting back at being beaten in the womb with
mommie abuse. Can't kill mommie and daddy for that, so kill all that mommie
and daddie love including self.

The learning curve picks up after awhile ... if you keep on the study of it.

sumbuddie wear blind sea

:(

From: kgrhoads on 17 Jul 2008 10:31


Alan B. Mac Farlane wrote:
> in article rKGfk.116$%b7.96(a)edtnps82, Dee at jlmacdougall(a)eastlink.ca wrote
> on 7/17/08 5:16 AM:
>
> > I'm just learning all of this stuff, myself; but I'm under the impression
> > that 30 mgs is a very low dose to stay with.
>
>
> .3 mg was my starting dose (3 micrograms) of synthyroid for thryoid cancer
> suppression chemotherapy Dee ... that is what they had to do in getting my
> TSH down to almost zero.
>
> later on as my PTSD issues unwound in my body, and my metabolism didn't have
> so much to take care of ... well later I had to cut down to .2 mg or (2
> mircograms) a day ... still to stay hyperthyroid and to still accomplish TSH
> suppression ... so as to keep the thyroid cancer quiet ... keep it sleeping
> as it were. This is a LOT of synthyroid that I am taking. Look in the PDR
> of the list of synthyroid pill sizes you can order up from the candy store
> with a MD Rx.
>


Alan,
0.3 mg is 300 micrograms and 0.2 mg is 200 micrograms, there is a
factor of 1000 between milli- and micro-

Dee (& Alan)
armour, generic dessicated thryoid and related were measured in
grains, then converted into milligram "equivalents"
1 grain = about 64.5 milligrams, but for most meds this was made 60mg
So 30 mg or armour or dessicated thyroid is "1/2 grain"

Back when armour was measured in grains, 1 grain was considered
approximately equivalent to 100 micrograms of synth-T4. (This is
only an approximation, people react differently for one and there is
no way to directly equivalence T3/T4 combos to T4 only.)

BEFORE the TSH test was used to set dose, when MDs dosed to
relieve symptoms, the average dose of armour was 2 grains to 3 grains
(depends on what records one goes by) for people on long term
replacement.

Paula,
the "crawling out the the skin" or excessive skin sensitivity CAN be
an imbalance in electrolytes. Typically it is a deficiency of
potassium which can be addressed with 4 to 6 potassium gluconate
tablets (nominally 600 mg of potassium gluconate per tablet).

If that is the problem, taking four to six potassium tabs will
alleviate
the symptoms within 5 to 10 minutes. Occasionally, a second
dose is needed to achieve full symptomatic relief.

Such potassium deficiency is common among people on diuretics,
including those drinking many cups of tea.

Restlessness and agitation can also occur from potassium
deficiency -- the long nerve fibers work by pulses which start
with a sodium flux and end with a potassium flux in the other
direction (one out, the other in relative to the nerve membrane).

In potassium deficiency these nerve fibers can turn on easily,
but can't turn off.

I would recommend that you try the potassium gluconate for
these symptoms. If it works, then you know. If not you can
look for other things.

Also, consider upping from 30 mg to 45 then 60, perhaps in divided
doses across the day.

Finally, remember than anyone who is his or her own doctor
has a FOOL for a patient. It is, at times, necessary to be
foolish -- but try to find a doctor to work with your son ASAP.

I would suggest NOT an endo - endos are often inflexible.
A family practitioner who is willing to prescribe armour
is probably best.

Disclaimer -- my doctorate is NOT in medicine
From: Rod on 17 Jul 2008 10:42
kgrhoads(a)alum.mit.edu wrote:
<>
> Paula,
> the "crawling out the the skin" or excessive skin sensitivity CAN be
> an imbalance in electrolytes. Typically it is a deficiency of
> potassium which can be addressed with 4 to 6 potassium gluconate
> tablets (nominally 600 mg of potassium gluconate per tablet).
>
> If that is the problem, taking four to six potassium tabs will
> alleviate
> the symptoms within 5 to 10 minutes. Occasionally, a second
> dose is needed to achieve full symptomatic relief.
>
<>

Kevin,

Why do you specifially suggest potassium gluconate (rather than, for
example, chelated potassium or potassium citrate)?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
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