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From: Kofi on 12 Jun 2007 07:33
Based partly on research highlighted in newsgroups, I'm beginning a
course of self-administered intramuscular Vitamin D3 shots (aka "Stross"
or depot therapy). I plan to start out at 100,000 I.U. once every two
months and after a few months, if necessary, move to more frequent shots
- perhaps as often as once a month - until I achieve the kind dramatic
improvement in my health I get from standing in the sun 3+ hours.

My last D3 reading about two years ago was 22, which the lab
incompetently reported as only borderline low-normal. I realize now
that 75 is normal and many of my symptoms pertaining to autoimmunity and
deficient innate immunity relate directly to inadequate D3 levels. I've
tried oral and sublingual D3 but I simply can't get enough that way.

I know I'm taking certain risks by measuring my progress strictly from
my symptoms instead of constantly checking my blood levels of vitamin D3
but that would be horrendously expensive. That said, I have a few
questions about safety for the group.

1) I already take regular I.M. magnesium injections in my outer thighs
and subQ B vitamin injections in my deltoids. I'm reluctant to do the
D3 injection in either location simply to reduce my risk of any possible
adverse interaction. I would probably also like to vary where I inject
the D3 each time in order to reduce any calcification risk in the
area(s). Any suggestions for injection sites? I'm thinking calves or
gluts. What's normally used?

2) I have a fairly adequate vitamin A intake but I don't know my
vitamin K levels. There's a theory that the adverse consequences of
high D3 have to do with depleting vitamin K. I've purchased 100mg
supplements which I assume I take with food. Is there any guidance in
the literature for how much K to take? My oral absorption is still
pretty poor, although I'm absorbing more magnesium orally since starting
the butyrate. By way of reference, I still have to take 150mg+ of zinc
daily to keep the spots off my nails.

3) I'd like to know if there are any obvious and immediate symptoms of
D3 overdose and what steps can be taken to ameliorate them. For
instance, what happens if the depot releases too much D3 too quickly.

Have I missed anything?
From: RArmant on 12 Jun 2007 11:21
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:33:46 GMT, Kofi <kofi(a)anon.un> wrote:

>I've
>tried oral and sublingual D3 but I simply can't get enough that way.

Have you tried vitamin D3 gel caps where the D3 is dissolved in oil?

Lots of information on how to properly take vitamin D3 can be found at:
http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/


From: Matti Narkia on 12 Jun 2007 20:43
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:33:46 GMT, Kofi <kofi(a)anon.un> wrote:

>Based partly on research highlighted in newsgroups, I'm beginning a
>course of self-administered intramuscular Vitamin D3 shots (aka "Stross"
>or depot therapy). I plan to start out at 100,000 I.U. once every two
>months and after a few months, if necessary, move to more frequent shots
>- perhaps as often as once a month - until I achieve the kind dramatic
>improvement in my health I get from standing in the sun 3+ hours.
>
Why are you standing in the sun so long? Light skinned people need
only 20 minutes to get the maximum daily dose and even people with the
darkest skin don't need more than 2 hours. After these times the
balance is reached where as much vitamin D is detroyed by sunlight as
is produced in the skin by UVB-radiation.

>My last D3 reading about two years ago was 22, which the lab
>incompetently reported as only borderline low-normal. I realize now
>that 75 is normal and many of my symptoms pertaining to autoimmunity and
>deficient innate immunity relate directly to inadequate D3 levels. I've
>tried oral and sublingual D3 but I simply can't get enough that way.
>
Vitamin D is fat soluble so it should be taken with food containing
some fat. Also how much vitamin A are you taking? Vitamin A and D
antagonize each other so too much vitamin A could reduce the effect of
vitamin D.

>I know I'm taking certain risks by measuring my progress strictly from
>my symptoms instead of constantly checking my blood levels of vitamin D3
>but that would be horrendously expensive. That said, I have a few
>questions about safety for the group.
>
[...]
>
>3) I'd like to know if there are any obvious and immediate symptoms of
>D3 overdose and what steps can be taken to ameliorate them. For
>instance, what happens if the depot releases too much D3 too quickly.
>
In adults the doses needed for acute poisoning are very large, much
larger than the doses you mentioned. In Australia 600 000 IU of
vitamin D was given to elderly people intramuscularly once a year and
apparently this large dose did not cause acute toxicity:

Diamond TH, Ho KW, Rohl PG, Meerkin M.
Annual intramuscular injection of a megadose of cholecalciferol for
treatment of vitamin D deficiency: efficacy and safety data.
Med J Aust. 2005 Jul 4;183(1):10-2.
PMID: 15992330 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/183_01_040705/dia10054_fm.html>

But in continouous use daily doses exceeding 40 000 IU have been found
to cause toxic effect after several years of use.


--
Matti Narkia
From: soowhatdouthink on 13 Jun 2007 01:07
> Have I missed anything?

Hi Kofi,
I think I missed something...
What in a nutshell, do you hope to ameliorate/alleviate by the vitamin
D shots?

TIA,
Arbor

From: betaine_hcl on 13 Jun 2007 05:07
May I suggest when you report lab values to include the factor
labels with those values. For example the lab may have been
using ng/mL and you seem to be using nmol/L. Don't get me
wrong 22 ng/mL is still low but more in the range called
insufficient as compared to (frankly) deficient below say 10 ng/mL or
25 nmol/L. ( The deficiency threshold may have been increased upward
but
I didn't commit that to memory.) The conversion factor is 2.5 go
from ng/dL to nmol/L. And the optimal
value seems to be above 80 nmol/L or 32 ng/dL from what
I've been led to understand.

And those 100 mg tablets are not 100 mg tablets
but 100 microgram tablets if I am not mistaken.
The biggest vitamin K capsules I've seen on the market
are 15 milligram of vitamin K2 and the next in size are
10 total vitamin K ( 9 mgs of K1 and 1 mg of K2).

I'd watch the amount of calcium in the urine even more so
than in the serum. Understand that is just my first instinct.
Well on second thought I think watching both would be best.
Then of course a direct measure of the serum 25 OH vitamin
can't be faulted.

Will the injected form be vitamin D2? If so remember
that it take more of it than D3 as the body doesn't hang
on to as well as the 'more natural' form.

I think the inject testosterone in the side of the calves
and since both have a steroid structure. Are the shots
a water or oil based? I'd think an oil base would be better.
I have no idea what the standard practice is for vitamin
D shots.

Be sure to split your magnesium dose so it doesn't give you
the diarrhea. Further don't use magnesium oxide as even
people with good digestion and uptake only get about
15% of this forms elemental magnesium. Sure one
can take more MgO than other forms but it just passes all the way thru
the gut
and then out. Magnesium carbonate or one the chelated forms would be
better.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Hoop

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