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From: Ilya the Bat on 25 Sep 2005 13:50
There are many women who believe that they either deserve to be abused,
or that they must sacrifice themselves.

The current methods of treatment are based on enhancing their
self-esteem and helping them to realize that they deserve better.

I have a better idea, and one that is less costly and less
time-consuming. It is a piece of logotherapy, or cognitive therapy,
that would take five minutes rather than a year to do, and that is:

Ask the woman, "What kind of father would you like your children to
have?"

If the woman believes that she needs to sacrifice herself, then it can
be brought to bear that her belief in self-sacrifice does not extend to
the life she would bring into the world, and that while she has a right
to sacrifice herself she has no right to sacrifice her children. Thus,
it can be told that the woman, if she indeed believes in
self-sacrifice, must sacrifice her own ideas and her own feelings and
her own psychology for the benefit of her children, and that means
finding a man who would be good to her children. This means that he
would not be abusive to their children - and likewise not abusive to
her.

If the woman believes that she is a bad person and deserves to be
abused, then the same question bears asking. Whatever person she thinks
she is - and whatever she believes she deserves - does not extend to
her children, who are innocent and have done nothing to merit whatever
she thinks she deserves. It can be further expounded that it is our
actions rather than our supposed personalities that make what we are,
and that if she wants to redeem herself from being a bad person then
the first thing to do is to make sure that she offers a good
environment to the life she brings into the world, and the life over
which she has the most control. And it can likewise be stated that if
she brings in the life in a bad environment then she will in fact be a
bad person, and be a bad person furthermore irredeemably and in a way
that horribly impacts the life over which she has the most impact.

In both cases, instead of the tedious self-esteem building procedure, a
piece of thought - to think about her children first and herself second
- can defeat the entrapment and nastiness that afflict the lives of
millions of women.

This procedure is far less expensive, and, in appealing to the woman's
mind rather than her emotions, is ultimately more respectful of the
woman who hears it.

Ilya Shambat.

From: Teilhard Knight on 25 Sep 2005 14:19
Ilya the Bat wrote:
> There are many women who believe that they either deserve to be
> abused, or that they must sacrifice themselves.
>
> The current methods of treatment are based on enhancing their
> self-esteem and helping them to realize that they deserve better.
>
> I have a better idea, and one that is less costly and less
> time-consuming. It is a piece of logotherapy, or cognitive therapy,
> that would take five minutes rather than a year to do, and that is:
>
> Ask the woman, "What kind of father would you like your children to
> have?"
>
> If the woman believes that she needs to sacrifice herself, then it can
> be brought to bear that her belief in self-sacrifice does not extend
> to the life she would bring into the world, and that while she has a
> right to sacrifice herself she has no right to sacrifice her
> children. Thus, it can be told that the woman, if she indeed believes
> in self-sacrifice, must sacrifice her own ideas and her own feelings
> and her own psychology for the benefit of her children, and that means
> finding a man who would be good to her children. This means that he
> would not be abusive to their children - and likewise not abusive to
> her.
>
> If the woman believes that she is a bad person and deserves to be
> abused, then the same question bears asking. Whatever person she
> thinks she is - and whatever she believes she deserves - does not
> extend to her children, who are innocent and have done nothing to
> merit whatever she thinks she deserves. It can be further expounded
> that it is our actions rather than our supposed personalities that
> make what we are, and that if she wants to redeem herself from being
> a bad person then the first thing to do is to make sure that she
> offers a good environment to the life she brings into the world, and
> the life over which she has the most control. And it can likewise be
> stated that if she brings in the life in a bad environment then she
> will in fact be a bad person, and be a bad person furthermore
> irredeemably and in a way that horribly impacts the life over which
> she has the most impact.
>
> In both cases, instead of the tedious self-esteem building procedure,
> a piece of thought - to think about her children first and herself
> second - can defeat the entrapment and nastiness that afflict the
> lives of millions of women.
>
> This procedure is far less expensive, and, in appealing to the woman's
> mind rather than her emotions, is ultimately more respectful of the
> woman who hears it.

You're nuts.

--
Teilhard Knight
The Extraterrestrial

I'm not screwed up................It's all in my mind.
Change "privacy" for "softhome" if you want to intrude my inbox


From: Lash Rambo on 25 Sep 2005 15:27
"Ilya the Bat" <ibshambat2004(a)hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1127670632.304865.121790(a)o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> There are many women who believe that they either deserve to be abused,
> or that they must sacrifice themselves.
>
> The current methods of treatment are based on enhancing their
> self-esteem and helping them to realize that they deserve better.
>
> I have a better idea, and one that is less costly and less
> time-consuming. It is a piece of logotherapy, or cognitive therapy,
> that would take five minutes rather than a year to do, and that is:
>
> Ask the woman, "What kind of father would you like your children to
> have?"
>
> If the woman believes that she needs to sacrifice herself, then it can
> be brought to bear that her belief in self-sacrifice does not extend to
> the life she would bring into the world, and that while she has a right
> to sacrifice herself she has no right to sacrifice her children. Thus,
> it can be told that the woman, if she indeed believes in
> self-sacrifice, must sacrifice her own ideas and her own feelings and
> her own psychology for the benefit of her children, and that means
> finding a man who would be good to her children. This means that he
> would not be abusive to their children - and likewise not abusive to
> her.

Please. If her problem could be beaten with logic, she'd have beaten it
long, long ago.
From: ibshambat2004 on 25 Sep 2005 16:04
Lash Rambo wrote:
> Please. If her problem could be beaten with logic, she'd have beaten it
> long, long ago.

Unless the women in question had not been exposed to that particular
meme, which most have not.

Ilya Shambat.

From: Eleonore Beaudoin on 25 Sep 2005 17:52

"Ilya the Bat" (ibshambat2004(a)hotmail.com) writes:
> There are many women who believe that they either deserve to be abused,
> or that they must sacrifice themselves.
>
> The current methods of treatment are based on enhancing their
> self-esteem and helping them to realize that they deserve better.
>
> I have a better idea, and one that is less costly and less
> time-consuming. It is a piece of logotherapy, or cognitive therapy,
> that would take five minutes rather than a year to do, and that is:
>
> Ask the woman, "What kind of father would you like your children to
> have?"
>
> If the woman believes that she needs to sacrifice herself, then it can
> be brought to bear that her belief in self-sacrifice does not extend to
> the life she would bring into the world, and that while she has a right
> to sacrifice herself she has no right to sacrifice her children. Thus,
> it can be told that the woman, if she indeed believes in
> self-sacrifice, must sacrifice her own ideas and her own feelings and
> her own psychology for the benefit of her children, and that means
> finding a man who would be good to her children. This means that he
> would not be abusive to their children - and likewise not abusive to
> her.

I am not sure I read you well here, because what I just think I read
actually is a near description of a controlling woman, and one who then is
an adeot and ro at the dynamics that give way to control-dependancy or
abusive/no self-respect relationships.

To not raise controlling abusive children, parents both must teach them
how to not only make compromises while respecting their own self at it
too, but how to not put up with being secondary human beings to anyone.
Does not mean to get them to be over everyone, not one bit. But that to
really love and give the bst of you, one must not only safegard that self,
but secure its right to bloom ongoingly by knowing how to behgave and what
to not put up with. It has to be a natural way of being by the time they
leave home so that no one plays the control game with them nor them with
others.

C

> > If the woman
believes that she is a bad person and deserves to be
> abused, then the same question bears asking. Whatever person she thinks
> she is - and whatever she believes she deserves - does not extend to
> her children, who are innocent and have done nothing to merit whatever
> she thinks she deserves. It can be further expounded that it is our
> actions rather than our supposed personalities that make what we are,
> and that if she wants to redeem herself from being a bad person then
> the first thing to do is to make sure that she offers a good
> environment to the life she brings into the world, and the life over
> which she has the most control. And it can likewise be stated that if
> she brings in the life in a bad environment then she will in fact be a
> bad person, and be a bad person furthermore irredeemably and in a way
> that horribly impacts the life over which she has the most impact.
>
> In both cases, instead of the tedious self-esteem building procedure, a
> piece of thought - to think about her children first and herself second
> - can defeat the entrapment and nastiness that afflict the lives of
> millions of women.
>
> This procedure is far less expensive, and, in appealing to the woman's
> mind rather than her emotions, is ultimately more respectful of the
> woman who hears it.
>
> Ilya Shambat.
>


--



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