How About A Side Of Hypocrisy
in [Vegetarian]
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From: Dutch on 9 Aug 2008 18:36 SystemX wrote: > Dutch wrote: >> SystemX wrote: >>> Dutch wrote: >>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy and >>>>>>>> still legitimately call themselves vegans. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word >>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why not >>>>>>> score a point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That was redundant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable >>>>>>> identification: >>>>>> >>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God? >>>>> >>>>> Including animals? >>>> >>>> All things, flowers, animals. >>>> >>>>>> You ought to, we are all God. >>>>> >>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic >>>>> and an atheist. >>>> >>>> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but, how >>>> to put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe intelligent >>>> beyond all comprehension constantly manifesting itself in a >>>> multitude of ways, the most advanced of these being the self-aware >>>> human being. That force is living in each of us, it is in a very >>>> basic sense "who we are". I believe this is what is behind the >>>> spiritual teachings and the original meaning of God. >>> >>> Stop dreaming. >>> >>> We are nothing but animals on a planet. >>> >> >> That's a pretty blas� perspective. Whatever floats your boat though.. > > Nothing blas� about fact. > > Facts aren't blas�, perspectives can be.
From: Dutch on 9 Aug 2008 18:45 SystemX wrote: > Dutch wrote: >> SystemX wrote: >>> Dutch wrote: >>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy >>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word >>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why >>>>>>>> not score a point. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That was redundant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable >>>>>>>> identification: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God? >>>>>> >>>>>> Including animals? >>>>> >>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God". >>>> >>>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert to >>>> us are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty >>>> space, the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature >>>> galaxies. Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our >>>> powers of perception. >>>> >>> >>> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of >>> perception. >> >> Of course, we only know the world through the filters of our >> perception. How could it be otherwise? >> >>> >>> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated. >> >> Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve. > > No. You seem confused, When contemplating the universe perhaps appearing confused is a sign of wisdom. One of the new and exciting principles of physics is uncertainty. > and seem to be balancing a view between their > being a God and not. I think I stated my position quite clearly. I reject "religion" per se, along with "worship" and most other artifacts of conventional religion. But there is a force underlying everything, far more powerful than nuclear energy, and we are each manifestations of that force. The idea that nothing we can't see does not exist is simply naive. Quantum physics is exploring whole new realms of reality. > >> >> Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an agnostic-atheist is causing >> internal distress? > > Not really. I'm quite happy with my view. I'm not sitting on a fence. "I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an atheist."
From: Dutch on 9 Aug 2008 18:49 SystemX wrote: > Dutch wrote: >> SystemX wrote: >>> Dutch wrote: >>>> Rudy Canoza wrote: >>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy >>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word >>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why >>>>>>>>> not score a point. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That was redundant. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable >>>>>>>>> identification: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Including animals? >>>>>> >>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God". >>>>> >>>>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans. >>>> >>>> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans, not >>>> only animals and plants, everything. >>>> >>>> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life, >>>> humans being the most ambitious manifestation of that force. >>> >>> There is no 'force'. >> >> No force? That is hardly a plausible response. At the very least there >> are many forces operating independently. There's a force in you that >> gets you up in the morning. > > No; there is no 'organising force'. There is no 'force' that gets me up > in the morning. (Apart from the PHYSICAL one that changes a body from a > state of rest to one of motion). > >> >>> It is entirely evolutionary. >> >> What is "it"? > > "life" What is life? Show me. Isn't it a force? >> I didn't say anything about development of species. > >> Question, why does life bother to occur? > > It doesn't 'bother' it just occurs. Why? >> Why does lichen live on high mountain ridges where it is -100 degrees >> with almost no air? Why do animals struggle to live in Antarctic >> winter? Why do flowers bloom? > > Try Wikipedia. There will be metaphysical hypotheses that you would reject. > >> Seems like a lot of trouble just to die a short time later. What is >> driving all this frenetic activity? Seems to me like there is some >> kind of driving force. > > You are mistaken, How can you be so certain? > possibly misled by those around you. Where did you get the notions "atheism" and "agnosticism"? Was it not "those around you"?
From: SystemX on 10 Aug 2008 06:22 Dutch wrote: > SystemX wrote: >> Dutch wrote: >>> SystemX wrote: >>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy >>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word >>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why >>>>>>>>> not score a point. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That was redundant. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable >>>>>>>>> identification: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Including animals? >>>>>> >>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God". >>>>> >>>>> I figured that. Every plant, animal, even things that seem inert to >>>>> us are manifestations of a universal force. A rock is 99% empty >>>>> space, the other 1% is comprised of spinning particles, miniature >>>>> galaxies. Its apparent solid form is simply a limitation of our >>>>> powers of perception. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Perhaps your understanding of animals is limited by your power of >>>> perception. >>> >>> Of course, we only know the world through the filters of our >>> perception. How could it be otherwise? >>> >>>> >>>> I get the feeling you're confused, perhaps indoctrinated. >>> >>> Ahh, out come the daggers, I must have hit a nerve. >> >> No. You seem confused, > > When contemplating the universe perhaps appearing confused is a sign of > wisdom. One of the new and exciting principles of physics is uncertainty. > >> and seem to be balancing a view between their being a God and not. > > I think I stated my position quite clearly. I reject "religion" per se, > along with "worship" and most other artifacts of conventional religion. > But there is a force underlying everything, far more powerful than > nuclear energy, and we are each manifestations of that force. The idea > that nothing we can't see does not exist is simply naive. Quantum > physics is exploring whole new realms of reality. You now seem to be sifting your position from a God like "organising force" to a physical one. >> >>> >>> Perhaps your "self-indoctrination" as an agnostic-atheist is causing >>> internal distress? >> >> Not really. I'm quite happy with my view. I'm not sitting on a fence. > > "I seem to hover between being an agnostic and an atheist." Both are clearly on one side of the 'God fence'.
From: SystemX on 10 Aug 2008 06:30
Dutch wrote: > SystemX wrote: >> Dutch wrote: >>> SystemX wrote: >>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>> Dutch wrote: >>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy >>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word >>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why >>>>>>>> not score a point. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That was redundant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable >>>>>>>> identification: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God? >>>>>> >>>>>> Including animals? >>>>> >>>>> All things, flowers, animals. >>>>> >>>>>>> You ought to, we are all God. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't believe in God. I seem to hover between being an agnostic >>>>>> and an atheist. >>>>> >>>>> I don't "believe in God" in the conventional sense either, but, how >>>>> to put it.. there is a powerful force in the universe intelligent >>>>> beyond all comprehension constantly manifesting itself in a >>>>> multitude of ways, the most advanced of these being the self-aware >>>>> human being. That force is living in each of us, it is in a very >>>>> basic sense "who we are". I believe this is what is behind the >>>>> spiritual teachings and the original meaning of God. >>>> >>>> Stop dreaming. >>>> >>>> We are nothing but animals on a planet. >>>> >>> >>> That's a pretty blas� perspective. Whatever floats your boat though.. >> >> Nothing blas� about fact. >> >> > > Facts aren't blas�, perspectives can be. It is a fact that "We are nothing but animals on a planet". What evidence would lead you to come to a different perspective? What evidence do you have for this wishy washy notion of God as an "organising force"? |