Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt
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From: pearl on 14 Mar 2007 07:48 "David Johnston" <david(a)block.net> wrote in message news:7uldv2t22t4qfpcmgsgnv4cfkt6kmpreml(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:09:28 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > wrote: > > >"David Johnston" <david(a)block.net> wrote in message news:bsfbv2t0p6uivoo2vj22hreg6a615j04ls(a)4ax.com... > >> On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:50:55 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> wrote: > >... > >> >A colleague asks: "If children weren't meant to be eaten, > >> >then why are they made out of meat?" Answer please.. > >> > >> Children are unsuitable for human consumption because cannibalism > >> leads to the development of prion diseases. > > > >Eating infected animals certainly can. > > Oh they don't have to be "infected". Prion diseases arise > spontaneously when you engage in cannibalism. Many New Guinea tribes practiced cannibalism, but only the Fore tribe were affected, and between about 1920 to 1950, despite their being cannibals for hundreds of years. So..?? Mark Purdey blames it on manganese poisoning and copper deficiency, as he does BSE in the UK, and another claims there was military experimentation .. involving minced sheep brains. I don't know what happened there, but it's not just cannibalism.
From: pearl on 14 Mar 2007 07:54 <10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:8odev2d0c0lasogcs7k82ec8ooafr2g2p3(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:28:33 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > wrote: > > ><10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:cqfdv2l4qdgp8su4gn873cqvvo05ujkbnn(a)4ax.com... > >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:00:46 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> wrote: > >> > >> ><10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:phlbv29ppf723or9qebur7nvfaf6itc4ug(a)4ax.com... > >> >> On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:53:36 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> ><10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:rk58v2ph2vkmn7t9b9une3ia7d66638trl(a)4ax.com... > >> >> >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:02:24 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >"Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message news:cNKIh.62340$Du6.1198(a)edtnps82... > >> >> >> >> "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > >> >> >> >> news:esvdt6$67m$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >> >> >> >> > "Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message > >> >> >> >> > news:uwDIh.62113$Du6.116(a)edtnps82... > >> >> >.. > >> >> >> >> >> It's perfectly ethical, legal, humane, moral, and sustainable to harvest > >> >> >> >> >> seals for fur and meat. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > It is none of the above. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> That certainly was a compelling argument. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >If there is absolute necessity (for survival), it may be justifiable. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >This isn't. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Could you please show some data to prove your statement. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> If folks stop producing food, then what do they eat? > >> >> > > >> >> >'Most of the meat is wasted and left on the ice. Some if it is > >> >> >sold to fur farms and some is ground up into animal feed. A > >> >> >few thousand seal flippers are sold for human consumption in > >> >> >Newfoundland. There is also a growing black market demand > >> >> >for the seal penis bone in the Far East as some sort of voodoo > >> >> >quack remedy for impotence. > >> >> >...' > >> >> >http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/faqs.html > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> I'm sorry, that is as somewhat vitriolic and biased website. > >> > > >> >Not a valid argument. Show otherwise. > >> > >> Compared to what is published by the department of Fisheries and > >> Oceans the information on that site does not reflect reality. > > > >This? > > > >'Seals have been hunted for food, fuel, shelter, fur and other > >products for hundreds of years. DFO is no longer involved in > >product support or promotion activities, but the department > >does encourage the fullest possible commercial use of seals. > >Seal products consist of leather, oil, handicrafts, and meat for > >human and animal consumption as well as seal oil capsules > >rich in Omega-3." > >http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/faq_e.htm > > > >I don't see "all of the meat..", or even "most of the meat.."? > > > >Here neither: > >http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/reports-rapports/facts-faits/factsheet_e.htm > > > >Do you? > > > >'There are few indigenous peoples involved in the commercial > >seal "hunt". Inuit or Native people in the North hunt mostly in > >the arctic and primarily ringed seals. Most of the sealers in the > >Gulf of St.Lawrence are residents of the Magdalen Islands > >of Quebec. These are French speaking people. Most of the > >sealers of the Newfoundland Front are descendents of the > >European immigrants. > > > >There are about 4500 Inuit in Newfoundland. ..... > >...' > >http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/faqs.html > > So you would take away a traditional lifestyle and income away from > folks who have lived of the fare of the ocean for at least tens of > centuries? What would they turn to for food and income if this is > denyied them? > So what if these folks speak French. It is their lifestyle and lively > hood you attack. They don't attack you for being vegetarian. Yeah..right. What part of "'Most of the meat is wasted and left on the ice." are you still having trouble with? If as a last resort seal meat is required, I can't object, but that isn't the case here. > Vegetarians are responsible for a great deal of loss of wildlife > habitat to the plow. They eat, wildlife starves. As if you 'omnivores' don't eat vegetables and fruits, grains, legumes, nuts and so on as well. Addressed in other posts.
From: pearl on 14 Mar 2007 09:53 "Nobody" <not(a)home.anymore> wrote in message news:Xns98F2B0D83F6061v2rt(a)204.153.245.131... > pearl wrote: > > > > Evidence? You might as well back your claims up with evidence > > from here on, as I see no reason to take your word on anything. > > Pretty well covers how many here feel about yourself. You're projecting. > You live in a different country that is seriously messed up as well and > you want to tell Canadians how to run their country. Can you see why > you are being called a fool? > > As you said, ut your own house in order, THEN come tell us how to do > things. What the heck are you prattling on about?
From: pearl on 14 Mar 2007 09:58 "Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message news:LCMJh.82393$Du6.11789(a)edtnps82... > "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > news:et6d6m$1ij$5(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > > "Eric Gisin" <gisin(a)uniserve.com> wrote in message > > news:1173726518.724066(a)netadmin1.interbaun.net... > >> "Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message > >> news:y0hJh.38687$lY6.20732(a)edtnps90... > >> >> "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > >> >> news:et3pe6$v67$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >> >> Omnivores are carnivorous. Where are meat-eating adaptations? > >> > > >> > The brain. > >> Leading to technology, like stone tools 2M years ago and fire over 1M > >> years ago. > > > > What came first.. the "meat/brain/intelligence", or the > > means to acquire and actually eat it... ? ...duuuuh... . > > "The primate order includes a handful of species that live entirely on meat > (carnivores) and also a few that are strict vegetarians (herbivores), but it > is composed chiefly of animals that have varied diets (omnivores). The > carnivorous primates are the four species of tarsiers, which live in > Southeast Asia. Using their long back legs, these pocket-sized nocturnal > hunters leap on their prey, pinning it down with their hands and then > killing it with their needle-sharp teeth. Tarsiers primarily eat insects but > will also eat lizards, bats, and snakes." > > http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569210/Primate.html 'According to Tuttle, the first substantive information on chimp diets was provided by Nissen in 1931 (p.75). In 1930 Nissen spent 75 days of a 3-month period tracking and observing chimps. He made direct unquantified observations and examined fecal deposits and leftovers at feeding sites. He also found "no evidence that they ate honey, eggs or animal prey" - this observation may have been too limited due to seasonal variations in the chimp diet. In Reynolds and Reynolds (1965), Tuttle says that a 300 hour study of Budongo Forest chimps over an 8-month period revealed "no evidence for avian eggs, termites or vertebrates", although they thought that insects formed 1% of their diet (p.81). In another study of Budongo Forest chimps from 1966 to 1967, Sugiyama did not observe "meat-eating or deliberate captures of arthropods", although he reported that "the chimpanzees did ingest small insects that infested figs" (p.82). Tuttle says that later observations at Budongo by Suzuki revealed meat eating. Where the earlier observations wrong, or incomplete, or maybe an accurate reflection of their diet at the time? Did the chimps change their diet later? We do not know. Chimps sometimes change their diets on a monthly basis. A study of chimps at the Kabogo Point region from 1961 to 1962 by Azuma and Toyoshima, revealed that they witnessed "only one instance of chimpanzees ingesting animal food, vis. termites or beetles from rotten wood." (p.87). From 1963 to 1964, similar observations were found in Kasakati Basin by a Kyoto University team, and when Izawa and Itani published in 1966 they reported "no chimpanzees eating insects, vertebrates, avian eggs, soil or tree leaves and found no trace in the 14 stools that they inspected " (p.86). In contrast Kawabe and Suzuki found the Kasakati chimps hunting in the same year (p.88), although only 14 of 174 fecal samples contained traces of insects and other animal foods. So perhaps these differing observations are due to seasonal variation, or even local differences (cultural variation) in feeding preferences - Tuttle does not reveal which. Maybe some of the chimps groups are 'vegetarian', while others are not. But see the Kortlandt observations below before believing that all chimps are meat-eaters. Far less is known about bonobo feeding habits than about the common chimpanzee. Like chimps, the bonobo is also known to eat insects and carrion, although unlike chimps it has not been observed to hunt. Kano and Mulavwa provided the most detailed account of the feeding behaviour of Wamba bonobos based on a 4-month study. Tuttle reports that their diet was 80% fruit pulp, 15% fibrous foods and 5% seeds, and that "Animal foods constituted a minute part of their fare" (p.95). The best evidence, if there is any, of a "vegetarian" ape is the gorilla. As with the other apes, there is great variation in what gorillas eat based on their locality, and season. A 15-month study of gorillas at Campo by Calvert, is reported by Tuttle (p.100), in which he says that out of 280 stools, 1 example of stomach contents and 1400 feeding sites, plus direct observations, there was "no evidence" that "Campo gorillas ingested animal matter." Similarly, Casimir and Butenandt followed a group about 20 gorillas at Kahuzi during 15 months in 1971 to 1972 (Tuttle, ibid., p.102). They collected 43 fecal samples at fairly regular intervals but none "contained remains of vertebrates or invertebrates". In addition, the gorillas did not disturb active birds and honeybee nests that were clearly visible near their own nests. Nor did they unearth bee nests. Goodall also noted that Kahuzi gorillas ignored eggs and fledglings and did not invade bees nests (Tuttle, ibid., p.105), and that none of the many fecal samples he found contained animal remnants. Tuttle also reports that the "most detailed" study of 10 groups of Zairean Virunga mountain gorillas by Schaller in 13 months from 1956 to 1960, including fecal samples and 466 direct hours of observation, found "no evidence that they raided apian nests, which were common at Kabara, ingested animal foods, or drank water." (p.107) In 1959, a 64-day study by Kawai and Mizuhara of gorillas at Mts. Muhavura and Gahinga also found "no evidence for animal foods in the gorillas' fare." (p.108) The story for gorillas is by no means a clear one, as findings seem to vary from one study to another. You can pick them to suit your agenda. For example, Adriaan Kortlandt says in 'Food Acquisition And Processing In Primates', page 133-135, that "Gorillas have never been observed to eat honey, eggs, insects or meat, not even when they were sitting or nesting almost on top of honeycomb or a bird's nest, except for one single case of honey-eating reported by Sabater-Pi (1960)" He adds however, that Fossey (1974) reports that slugs, larvae and worms were found to constitute 1% of the food item observations recorded. Kortlandt adds that "No animal remains have been found in gorilla dung, except for one case presumably indicating cannibalism (Fossey, 1981)." Kortlandt states that predation by chimpanzees on vertebrates is undoubtedly a rather rare phenomenon among rainforest-dwelling populations of chimpanzees. Kortlandt lists the reasons given below in his evidence. # the absence (or virtual absence) of animal matter in the digestive systems of hundreds of hunted, dissected or otherwise investigated cases # the rarity of parasites indicating carnivorous habits # rarity of pertinent field observations # the responses when he placed live as well as dead potential prey animals along the chimpanzee paths at Beni (in the poorer environments of the savanna landscape however, predation on vertebrates appears to be much more common) Kortlandt concludes this section on primate diets by saying that the wealth of flora and insect fauna in the rain-forest provides both chimpanzees and orang-utans with a dietary spectrum that seems wide enough to meet their nutritional requirements, without hunting and killing of vertebrates being necessary. It is in the poorer nutritional environments, where plant sources may be scarce or of low quality where carnivorous behaviour arises. Even then he says that the meat obtained are minimal and perhaps insufficient to meet basic needs. Finally he adds "The same conclusion applies, of course, to hominids . . . it is strange that most palaeoanthropologists have never been willing to accept the elementary facts on this matter that have emerged from both nutritional science and primate research." ...' http://venus.nildram.co.uk/veganmc/polemics.htm
From: pearl on 14 Mar 2007 10:17
<10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:u3dev2lrcjhmcki3r8firs6ckp9uecq00c(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:43:41 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > wrote: > > ><10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:86gdv25vcvg63a7pbnkbdlejdg7auft5fe(a)4ax.com... > >> On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 12:06:30 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >"Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message news:y0hJh.38687$lY6.20732(a)edtnps90... > >> >> > "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > >> >> > news:et3pe6$v67$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >> > > >> >> > Omnivores are carnivorous. Where are meat-eating adaptations? > >> >> > >> >> The brain. > >> > > >> >'Anthropologies 'Man The Hunter' concept is still used as a > >> >reason for justifying the consumption of animal flesh as food. > >> >This has even extended as far as suggesting that animal foods > >> >have enabled or caused human brain enlargement. > >> > >> It is man, the hunter gatherer. Humans utilized every food source > >> they could in the past. There are some places in the world where even > >> rodents are considered for the menu, along with all the edible plant > >> species.. > > > >'Ethnographic parallels with modern hunter-gatherer communities have > >been taken to show that the colder the climate, the greater the reliance > >on meat. There are sound biological and economic reasons for this, not > >least in the ready availability of large amounts of fat in arctic mammals. > >From this, it has been deduced that the humans of the glacial periods > >were primarily hunters, while plant foods were more important during > >the interglacials. ' > >http://www.phancocks.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/naturalhistory/devensian.htm > > > >"Studies of frugivorous communities elsewhere suggest that dietary > >divergence is highest when preferred food (succulent fruit) is scarce, > >and that niche separation is clear only at such times (Gautier-Hion > >& Gautier 1979: Terborgh 1983). " Foraging profiles of sympatric > >lowland gorillas and chimpanzees in the Lop� Reserve, Gabon, p.179, > >Philosophical Transactions: Biological Sciences vol 334, 159-295, > >No. 1270 > > > >'Kortlandt concludes this section on primate diets by saying that > >the wealth of flora and insect fauna in the rain-forest provides > >both chimpanzees and orang-utans with a dietary spectrum that seems > >wide enough to meet their nutritional requirements, without hunting > >and killing of vertebrates being necessary. It is in the poorer > >nutritional environments, where plant sources may be scarce or of > >low quality where carnivorous behaviour arises. Even then he says > >that the meat obtained are minimal and perhaps insufficient to meet > >basic needs. Finally he adds "The same conclusion applies, of course, > >to hominids . . . it is strange that most palaeoanthropologists have > >never been willing to accept the elementary facts on this matter > >that have emerged from both nutritional science and primate research." > >..' > >http://venus.nildram.co.uk/veganmc/polemics.htm > > > > So what do those who hunt seals turn to for food In this "hunt" most of the meat is left on the ice. > and income when they > can no longer hunt seals? And where are the rain forests on the > coastlines where the seal hunters live? What are the alternative food > sources. What are the alternative sources of income? Addressed elsewhere. Do these populations not eat fruits and vegetables? Where are they getting such foods from? > What happens if the seal population goes unchecked? The ocean ecology begins to recover, if people let it be. |