Help End the Cruel Harp Seal Hunt
in [Vegetarian]
|
Prev: SpayVac� Managing wildlife without slaughter?
Next: Most early humans ate primarily plant foods...
From: pearl on 13 Mar 2007 07:00 <10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:phlbv29ppf723or9qebur7nvfaf6itc4ug(a)4ax.com... > On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:53:36 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > wrote: > > ><10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:rk58v2ph2vkmn7t9b9une3ia7d66638trl(a)4ax.com... > >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:02:24 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >"Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message news:cNKIh.62340$Du6.1198(a)edtnps82... > >> >> "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > >> >> news:esvdt6$67m$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >> >> > "Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message > >> >> > news:uwDIh.62113$Du6.116(a)edtnps82... > >.. > >> >> >> It's perfectly ethical, legal, humane, moral, and sustainable to harvest > >> >> >> seals for fur and meat. > >> >> > > >> >> > It is none of the above. > >> >> > >> >> That certainly was a compelling argument. > >> > > >> >If there is absolute necessity (for survival), it may be justifiable. > >> > > >> >This isn't. > >> > >> Could you please show some data to prove your statement. > >> > >> If folks stop producing food, then what do they eat? > > > >'Most of the meat is wasted and left on the ice. Some if it is > >sold to fur farms and some is ground up into animal feed. A > >few thousand seal flippers are sold for human consumption in > >Newfoundland. There is also a growing black market demand > >for the seal penis bone in the Far East as some sort of voodoo > >quack remedy for impotence. > >...' > >http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/faqs.html > > > > I'm sorry, that is as somewhat vitriolic and biased website. Not a valid argument. Show otherwise.
From: pearl on 13 Mar 2007 07:59 <10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:mllbv216b5bqcmbf64nrlci0vlf30poom3(a)4ax.com... > On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:53:10 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > wrote: > > ><10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message news:im58v21keb9fhg0f0s1334e77kglgu4gev(a)4ax.com... > >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:07:11 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >'Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate > >> >for all stages of the lifecycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, > >> >infancy, childhood and adolescence. Appropriately planned vegetarian > >> >diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate and provide health benefits in > >> >the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.' These 'certain > >> >diseases' are the killer epidemics of today - heart disease, strokes, > >> >cancers, diabetes etc. > >> > > >> >This is the view of the world's most prestigious health advisory body, > >> >the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada, after a > >> >review of world literature. It is backed up by the British Medical > >> >Association: > >> > > >> >'Vegetarians have lower rates of obesity, coronary heart disease, > >> >high blood pressure, large bowel disorders, cancers and gall stones.' > >> >...' > >> >http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/mediareleases/050221.html > >> > >> > >> You should see the millions of hectares stolen from wildlife habitat > >> so that farmers can grow food for folks who eat cerial crops and > >> vegetables. All those animals that used that habitat are now shut out > >> and starving. > >> Not to mention all of the fertilizers, herbicides, and pestiticides > >> farmers use to maximize the crops they grow to sell to vegetarians. > >> All that stuff is poisoning the earth. Give me pristine wilderness, > >> grubbing for roots, and eating small (and large) mammals and fish that > >> I catch my self. I'm really into organic.... > > > >Non sequitur. As you've mentioned it, though.. > > > >'Livestock a major threat to environment > >.. > >Livestock now use 30 percent of the earth's entire land surface, mostly > >permanent pasture but also including 33 percent of the global arable land > >used to producing feed for livestock, the report notes. As forests are > >cleared to create new pastures, it is a major driver of deforestation, > >especially in Latin America where, for example, some 70 percent of > >former forests in the Amazon have been turned over to grazing. > > > >Land and water > > > >At the same time herds cause wide-scale land degradation, with about > >20 percent of pastures considered as degraded through overgrazing, > >compaction and erosion. This figure is even higher in the drylands > >where inappropriate policies and inadequate livestock management > >contribute to advancing desertification. > > > >The livestock business is among the most damaging sectors to the > >earth's increasingly scarce water resources, contributing among other > >things to water pollution, euthropication and the degeneration of coral > >reefs. The major polluting agents are animal wastes, antibiotics and > >hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and the pesticides used > >to spray feed crops. Widespread overgrazing disturbs water cycles, > >reducing replenishment of above and below ground water resources. > >Significant amounts of water are withdrawn for the production of feed. > > > >Livestock are estimated to be the main inland source of phosphorous > >and nitrogen contamination of the South China Sea, contributing to > >biodiversity loss in marine ecosystems. > > > >Meat and dairy animals now account for about 20 percent of all > >terrestrial animal biomass. Livestock's presence in vast tracts of land > >and its demand for feed crops also contribute to biodiversity loss; > >15 out of 24 important ecosystem services are assessed as in decline, > >with livestock identified as a culprit. > >... > >http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html > > > >Impact of livestock grazing on wildlife and habitat worldwide: > >http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter6.html > > > >"global arable land" = "present cropland".. > > > >From Technological Trajectories and the Human Environment. > >1997. Pp. 56-73. Washington, DC: National Academy Press. > >"How Much Land Can Ten Billion People Spare for Nature?".. > > > >'By eating different species of crops and a more or less vegetarian > >diet people can change the number that a plot can feed. And large > >numbers of people do change their diets. The calories and protein > >available from present cropland could provide a vegetarian diet to > >ten billion people. A diet requiring food and feed totaling 6,000 > >calories daily for ten billion people, however, would overwhelm > >the capability of present agriculture on present cropland. The > >global totals of sun, CO2, fertilizer, and even water could produce > >far more food than what ten billion people need. > >..' > >http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=4767&page=56 > > > And growing crops and vegetables is also a major threat to the > environment. 'Surveys by the ministry of agriculture and the British Trust for Ornithology have shown the beneficial effects of organic farming on wildlife. It's not difficult to see why: the pesticides used in intensive agriculture kill many soil organisms, insects and other larger species. They also kill plants considered to be weeds. That means fewer food sources available for other animals, birds and beneficial insects and it also destroys many of their habitats. http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/Farming/benefits.html 'The independent research quoted in this report found substantially greater levels of both abundance and diversity of species on the organic farms, as outlined below: - Plants: Five times as many wild plants in arable fields, 57% more species, and several rare and declining wild arable species found only on organic farms. - Birds: 25% more birds at the field edge, 44% more in-field in autumn/winter; 2.2 times as many breeding skylarks and higher skylark breeding rates. - Invertebrates: 1.6 times as many of the arthropods that comprise bird food; three times as many non-pest butterflies in the crop areas; one to five times as many spider numbers and one to two times as many spider species. - Crop pests: Significant decrease in aphid numbers; no change in numbers of pest butterflies. - Distribution of the biodiversity benefits: Though the field boundaries had the highest levels of wildlife, the highest increases were found in the cropped areas of the fields. - Quality of the habitats: Both the field boundary and crop habitats were more favourable on the organic farms. The field boundaries had more trees, larger hedges and no spray drift. ...' http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/pn48/pn48p15b.htm > Livestock utilize land that can not be used for vegetables and crops. Don't they just. Arable land too.
From: pearl on 13 Mar 2007 08:05 "Eric Gisin" <gisin(a)uniserve.com> wrote in message news:1173726518.724066(a)netadmin1.interbaun.net... > "Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message news:y0hJh.38687$lY6.20732(a)edtnps90... > >> "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message news:et3pe6$v67$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >> Omnivores are carnivorous. Where are meat-eating adaptations? > > > > The brain. > Leading to technology, like stone tools 2M years ago and fire over 1M years ago. What came first.. the "meat/brain/intelligence", or the means to acquire and actually eat it... ? ...duuuuh... . 'Medical News Today Main Category: Biology/Biochemistry News Article Date: 20 Feb 2006 - 0:00am (UK) Humans Evolved To Be Peaceful, Cooperative And Social Animals, Not Predators by Neil Schoenherr Washington University in St. Louis You wouldn't know it by current world events, but humans actually evolved to be peaceful, cooperative and social animals, not the predators modern mythology would have us believe, says an anthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis. Robert W. Sussman, Ph.D., professor anthropology in Arts & Sciences, spoke at a press briefing, "Early Humans on the Menu," during the American Association for the Advancement of the Science's Annual Meeting at 2 p.m. on Feb. 18. Also scheduled to speak at the briefing were Karen Strier, University of Wisconsin; Agustin Fuentes, University of Notre Dame; Douglas Fry, Abo Akademi University in Helsinki and University of Arizona; and James Rilling, Emory University. In his latest book, "Man the Hunted: Primates, Predators and Human Evolution," Sussman goes against the prevailing view and argues that primates, including early humans, evolved not as hunters but as prey of many predators, including wild dogs and cats, hyenas, eagles and crocodiles. Despite popular theories posed in research papers and popular literature, early man was not an aggressive killer, Sussman argues. He poses a new theory, based on the fossil record and living primate species, that primates have been prey for millions of years, a fact that greatly influenced the evolution of early man. "Our intelligence, cooperation and many other features we have as modern humans developed from our attempts to out-smart the predator," says Sussman. Since the 1924 discovery of the first early humans, australopithicenes, which lived from seven million years ago to two million years ago, many scientists theorized that those early human ancestors were hunters and possessed a killer instinct. The idea of "Man the Hunter" is the generally accepted paradigm of human evolution, says Sussman, "It developed from a basic Judeo-Christian ideology of man being inherently evil, aggressive and a natural killer. In fact, when you really examine the fossil and living non-human primate evidence, that is just not the case." Sussman's research is based on studying the fossil evidence dating back nearly seven million years. "Most theories on Man the Hunter fail to incorporate this key fossil evidence," Sussman says. "We wanted evidence, not just theory. We thoroughly examined literature available on the skulls, bones, footprints and on environmental evidence, both of our hominid ancestors and the predators that coexisted with them." Since the process of human evolution is so long and varied, Sussman and his co-author, Donna L. Hart, decided to focus their research on one specific species, Australopithecus afarensis, which lived between five million and two and a half million years ago and is one of the better known early human species. Most paleontologists agree that Australopithecus afarensis is the common link between fossils that came before and those that came after. It shares dental, cranial and skeletal traits with both. It's also a very well-represented species in the fossil record. "Australopithecus afarensis was probably quite strong, like a small ape," Sussman says. Adults ranged from around 3 to 5 feet and they weighed 60-100 pounds. They were basically smallish bipedal primates. Their teeth were relatively small, very much like modern humans, and they were fruit and nut eaters. But what Sussman and Hart discovered is that Australopithecus afarensis was not dentally pre-adapted to eat meat. "It didn't have the sharp shearing blades necessary to retain and cut such foods," Sussman says. "These early humans simply couldn't eat meat. If they couldn't eat meat, why would they hunt?" It was not possible for early humans to consume a large amount of meat until fire was controlled and cooking was possible. Sussman points out that the first tools didn't appear until two million years ago. And there wasn't good evidence of fire until after 800,000 years ago. "In fact, some archaeologists and paleontologists don't think we had a modern, systematic method of hunting until as recently as 60,000 years ago," he says. "Furthermore, Australopithecus afarensis was an edge species," adds Sussman. They could live in the trees and on the ground and could take advantage of both. "Primates that are edge species, even today, are basically prey species, not predators," Sussman argues. The predators living at the same time as Australopithecus afarensis were huge and there were 10 times as many as today. There were hyenas as big as bears, as well as saber-toothed cats and many other mega-sized carnivores, reptiles and raptors. Australopithecus afarensis didn't have tools, didn't have big teeth and was three feet tall. He was using his brain, his agility and his social skills to get away from these predators. "He wasn't hunting them," says Sussman. "He was avoiding them at all costs." Approximately 6 percent to 10 percent of early humans were preyed upon according to evidence that includes teeth marks on bones, talon marks on skulls and holes in a fossil cranium into which sabertooth cat fangs fit, says Sussman. The predation rate on savannah antelope and certain ground-living monkeys today is around 6 percent to 10 percent as well. Sussman and Hart provide evidence that many of our modern human traits, including those of cooperation and socialization, developed as a result of being a prey species and the early human's ability to out-smart the predators. These traits did not result from trying to hunt for prey or kill our competitors, says Sussman. "One of the main defenses against predators by animals without physical defenses is living in groups," says Sussman. "In fact, all diurnal primates (those active during the day) live in permanent social groups. Most ecologists agree that predation pressure is one of the major adaptive reasons for this group-living. In this way there are more eyes and ears to locate the predators and more individuals to mob them if attacked or to confuse them by scattering. There are a number of reasons that living in groups is beneficial for animals that otherwise would be very prone to being preyed upon." http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=38011
From: pearl on 13 Mar 2007 08:23 "Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message news:K1hJh.38688$lY6.27629(a)edtnps90... > "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > news:et3pdb$v1j$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > > <10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message > > news:8h58v2d61s7v55t6n5tb0rf1bi88c0odgi(a)4ax.com... > >> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:08:35 -0000, "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> > >> wrote: > >> > >> >"Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message > >> >news:H2LIh.62343$Du6.31635(a)edtnps82... > >> >> "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > >> >> news:esvdt7$67m$2(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >> >> > >> >> > Humans are not a naturally carnivorous species. > >> >> > >> >> Humans are naturally omnivores (both herbivore and carnivore). That > >> >> can be > >> >> proven by simply examining our teeth. > >> > > >> >See my reply to Nobody. > >> > > >> >> >> And how would Pearl suggest the Inuit grow cereal crops and > >> >> >> vegetables? OR is global warming going to allow them to do that? > >> >> > > >> >> > These seals are not being killed for meat. > >> >> > >> >> There is still a market for seal meat but it isn't the primary market. > >> > > >> >Again, show us data to support your claim. > >> > >> You want the menu for an outport restraunt in Newfoundland? > >> You have never had seal flipper soup? > > > > 'Most of the meat is wasted and left on the ice. Some if it is > > sold to fur farms and some is ground up into animal feed. A > > few thousand seal flippers are sold for human consumption in > > Newfoundland. There is also a growing black market demand > > for the seal penis bone in the Far East as some sort of voodoo > > quack remedy for impotence. > > ... > > There are few indigenous peoples involved in the commercial > > seal "hunt". Inuit or Native people in the North hunt mostly in > > the arctic and primarily ringed seals. Most of the sealers in the > > Gulf of St.Lawrence are residents of the Magdalen Islands > > of Quebec. These are French speaking people. Most of the > > sealers of the Newfoundland Front are descendents of the > > European immigrants. > > > > There are about 4500 Inuit in Newfoundland. However, the > > original Newfoundlanders, the Beothuk, were driven into > > extinction by the European immigrants. The last member of > > the Beothuk nation died in 1912. The Newfoundlanders had > > a bounty on the Beothuk and most were slain by MicMac > > Indian bounty hunters from New Brunswick and Quebec. > > Newfoundlanders also drove the Newfoundland wolf, the > > walrus, and the Labrador duck to extinction and extirpated the > > polar bear, and the pilot whale from Newfoundland territory.... > > ...' > > http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/faqs.html > > > >> You should travel to China and take a close look at the menus there. > >> If it walks, swims, crawls, or is breathing, it just might be a menu > >> item. > > > > 'Tu Quoque - Two Wrongs Make a Right > > > > Description: Two wrongs never add up to a right; you cannot right > > a wrong by applying yet another wrong. Such a fallacy is a misplaced > > appeal to consistency. It is a fallacy because it makes no attempt to > > deal with the subject under discussion. > > Do you have an opinion of your own, or do you just parrot websites? Do you have any valid argument, or are you just a pro-sealing troll?
From: pearl on 13 Mar 2007 08:34
"Nobody" <not(a)home.anymore> wrote in message news:Xns98F1C2B7ACC01v2rt(a)204.153.245.131... > Chom Noamsky wrote: > > > "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > > news:et3pdb$v1j$1(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >> <10x(a)telu�s.net> wrote in message > >> news:8h58v2d61s7v55t6n5tb0rf1bi88c0odgi(a)4ax.com... > >>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:08:35 -0000, "pearl" > >>> <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote: > >>> > >>> >"Chom Noamsky" <e(a)t.me> wrote in message > >>> >news:H2LIh.62343$Du6.31635(a)edtnps82... > >>> >> "pearl" <tea(a)signguestbook.ie> wrote in message > >>> >> news:esvdt7$67m$2(a)reader01.news.esat.net... > >>> >> > >>> >> > Humans are not a naturally carnivorous species. > >>> >> > >>> >> Humans are naturally omnivores (both herbivore and > >>> >> carnivore). That can be > >>> >> proven by simply examining our teeth. > >>> > > >>> >See my reply to Nobody. > >>> > > >>> >> >> And how would Pearl suggest the Inuit grow cereal crops > >>> >> >> and vegetables? OR is global warming going to allow them > >>> >> >> to do that? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > These seals are not being killed for meat. > >>> >> > >>> >> There is still a market for seal meat but it isn't the > >>> >> primary market. > >>> > > >>> >Again, show us data to support your claim. > >>> > >>> You want the menu for an outport restraunt in Newfoundland? > >>> You have never had seal flipper soup? > >> > >> 'Most of the meat is wasted and left on the ice. Some if it is > >> sold to fur farms and some is ground up into animal feed. A > >> few thousand seal flippers are sold for human consumption in > >> Newfoundland. There is also a growing black market demand > >> for the seal penis bone in the Far East as some sort of voodoo > >> quack remedy for impotence. > >> ... > >> There are few indigenous peoples involved in the commercial > >> seal "hunt". Inuit or Native people in the North hunt mostly in > >> the arctic and primarily ringed seals. Most of the sealers in the > >> Gulf of St.Lawrence are residents of the Magdalen Islands > >> of Quebec. These are French speaking people. Most of the > >> sealers of the Newfoundland Front are descendents of the > >> European immigrants. > >> > >> There are about 4500 Inuit in Newfoundland. However, the > >> original Newfoundlanders, the Beothuk, were driven into > >> extinction by the European immigrants. The last member of > >> the Beothuk nation died in 1912. The Newfoundlanders had > >> a bounty on the Beothuk and most were slain by MicMac > >> Indian bounty hunters from New Brunswick and Quebec. > >> Newfoundlanders also drove the Newfoundland wolf, the > >> walrus, and the Labrador duck to extinction and extirpated the > >> polar bear, and the pilot whale from Newfoundland territory.... > >> ...' > >> http://www.harpseals.org/hunt/faqs.html > >> > >>> You should travel to China and take a close look at the menus > >>> there. If it walks, swims, crawls, or is breathing, it just > >>> might be a menu item. > >> > >> 'Tu Quoque - Two Wrongs Make a Right > >> > >> Description: Two wrongs never add up to a right; you cannot right > >> a wrong by applying yet another wrong. Such a fallacy is a > >> misplaced appeal to consistency. It is a fallacy because it makes > >> no attempt to deal with the subject under discussion. > > > > Do you have an opinion of your own, or do you just parrot > > websites? > > Not only that but she parrots the same thing over and over. '.. the argument's presentation has no relevance to the truth or falsity in the conclusion. http://www.mdpme.com/FALLACY5.HTM#STYLE > BTW. the > http://www.beeffrompasturetoplate.org/mythmeatproductioniswasteful.aspx > > was good. One third of all land (or more); one third of all arable land. Etc. Unecessarilly. Naaah.. not wasteful at all.... |