From: JanD on

"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:3pInf.14747$O05.6935(a)fe09.lga...
> JanD wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>> news:bAAnf.8078$Kf4.6250(a)fe08.lga...
>>
>>>alexr wrote:
>>>
>>>>Read... compared...applied... Can't come to a different from
>>>>al-Bayatis's conclusion.
>>>
>>>I can only lead you to a clue, but I cannot make you think. You spent all
>>>of 16 minutes....
>>>
>>>I'll give you a hist..(sic).al-Bayati says that EJ could not have had
>>>pneumonia, since pneumonia requires that there be consolidation in the
>>>lungs...and the M/E said there was none...
>>>
>>>The M/E's report, however, specifically states that there was lung
>>>consolidation.
>>>
>>>Thus, since lung consolidation is a marker for pneumonia (according to
>>>al-Bayati), she had pneumonia, as suspected by her pediatrician days
>>>prior to her death.
>>>
>>>There are many other inconsistencies in al-Bayati's report. I suggest you
>>>begin reading some of the medical blogs. Start with:
>>>
>>>http://oracLIES
>>>
>>>and follow all LIES.
>
> JanD(honestly) changed LINK to LIES.
>
>> He LIES for Mark Probert.

Which is a proven fact.
>
> Mark has to trash anyone who proves him wrong, as he is incapable of
> intelligent discussion.

He also is incapable of answering questions.

And it is well know WHY!

http://www.justiceforej.com/ribeflipflops.html



Los Angeles County Deputy Coroner James K. Ribe has a long, disturbing
history of medical misjudgments and reversals of opinion that have subjected
innocent people to miscarriages of justice, especially wrongful murder
convictions. Because his tendentious testimony overwhelmingly favors the
prosecution, however, he has been protected by the Los Angeles County
District Attorney's Office, which has hidden Ribe's incompetence and bias
from everyone, including defense attorneys and even deputy district
attorneys



> Yes, it is hard for you to understand someone who learns additional facts
> and realizes that he needs to revise his opinion.


No, it is clear as a bell.

Disturbingly, if not shockingly, Ribe apparently regards such intellectual
ambivalence as progressive and laudatory. In actuality, Ribe's belated
remolding of medical findings reflects a lack of objectivity and
reliability. Post-autopsy changes in medical observations based upon
evidence presented by third parties are very likely to be biased by the
information presented by those third parties. As the examples below
demonstrate, the transmutations in Ribe's forensic impressions tend to bend
toward the will of the prosecution. Note that each of these examples is
referenced from newspaper articles instead of legal citations because the
D.A. and court system have been completely remiss in dealing with issues
such as the Ribe problem, where the goal of the prosecution and its
witnesses is simply to convict at any cost, irrespective of justice or the
presumption of innocence.


Which part of that, do YOU not understand?


Item 5: Jacobo/Vildosola. Ribe's negligence-if not venality-was responsible
for the 1997 wrongful murder convictions of William Jacobo, Jr. and Patricia
Inez Vildosola of Monterey Park after the sudden death of their
twenty-month-old baby Destiny. Ribe contended Destiny was the victim of
"Shaken Baby Syndrome"-a controversial if not fallacious diagnosis based
upon damage to and hemorrhaging of the brain. Yet Ribe did not provide
crucial "contre-coup" brain matter to Los Angeles County's chief
neuropathologist, Dr. Hideo H. Itabashi; nor did he present the brain tissue
at trial. Evidently, Ribe destroyed or concealed the purported "contre-coup"
material because it was exculpatory, and he wanted to ensure a successful
prosecution. Ribe also withheld evidence that Destiny was suffering from
pneumonia and other medical problems, and that she was fatally mistreated in
the Emergency Room of Santa Marta Hospital by Joseph Boggs, a doctor with a
suspended medical license whose licensesure was never reinstated. The
principal cause of Destiny's death was pneumothorax, the consequence of
overaggressive cardiopulmonary resuscitation by Boggs. Although Destiny was
dying of acute respiratory distress syndrome caused by the pneumothorax,
Boggs transferred Destiny out of Santa Marta to another hospital eighteen
(18) miles away in order to hide his malpractice. Mr. Jacobo was exonerated
and released after spending five long years in state penitentiaries, but Ms.
Vildosola, who is equally innocent, remains incarcerated for life.


Items 1-5 above are presented as concise examples for illustrative purposes
only, and should not be regarded as an exhaustive litany, or as a complete
accounting of all instances of Dr. Ribe's forensic and testimonial
unreliability.


The Appellate Court expressed its concern about Ribe's indecisiveness as
follows:


"Had this Court been informed of [Coroner Ribe's] prior changes of
opinion, it would have ordered additional disclosure if requested and
allowed further defense inquiry on cross examination. Moreover, knowledge of
the change of opinion would likely have led any defense counsel to have
known to ask for more specific information, as opposed to a general,
informal discovery letter on other Ribe cases. Such discovery might have
shown such a pattern as has resulted in the so called 'Ribe box' of
discovery, or additional, other, expert testimony." Salazar, 110 Cal.App.4th
at 1634, 3 Cal.Rptr.3rd at 275.


Likewise, in the trial of Ms. Vildosola, if the prosecution had made
information about Ribe's dubious credibility and forensic irresoluteness
available to the court and defense attorneys, there is a strong likelihood
that Patricia would have been properly exonerated of all charges.


The extent of Deputy Coroner Ribe's history of unreliability, vacillation,
and bias may never be fully determined. (Jean Guccione, County Reviews
Doctor's Trial Testimony. Reversals of verdicts prompt public defender to
look at proceedings involving a deputy coroner known for changing his
findings, LOS ANGELES TIMES, August 27, 2003, at p. B.4. See also Jean
Guccione, Child-Murder Conviction Tossed. L.A. Coroner's Credibility Cited,
LOS ANGELES TIMES, August 23, 2003, at p. B.1.)


Moreover, the district attorney's office continues to conceal information
about Ribe's inconsistencies, and its lack of confidence in Ribe's
credibility. (David Watson, Court Rules Withheld Evidence Requires Reversal
in Child's Death, METROPOLITAN NEWS ENTERPRISE (Los Angeles, California),
August 6, 2003, at p. 1)


All cases for which Ribe testified may be tainted, and should be reopened
immediately by the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office. (Katherine
Gaidos, Ruling Bashes DA for Hiding Witness's Flaws, LOS ANGELES DAILY
JOURNAL, August 25, 2003 Vol. 116, No. 164, at pp. 1ff.


Furthermore, a federal investigation may be needed in order to determine the
extent and impact of Ribe's improprieties. (Jim Crogan, Web of Deceit:
Murder conviction overturned because D.A. withheld evidence, LA WEEKLY,
August 15-21, 2003)


WHY, OH WHY is this man STILL the Coroner?!?!


Another Dr. Wilson?



> BTW, this attorney has probably lost a few cases where Dr. Ribe has
> testified.


That's all you have to say??????






>
>


From: JanD on

"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:qtInf.14749$O05.10135(a)fe09.lga...
> JanD wrote:
>> "HCN" <hcn(a)nospam.com> wrote .
>>
>>>"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>>alexr wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Which are..? please continue Mark...
>>
>>
>> Yes, tell us more LIES.
>>
>> Right up HCN's alley!
>>
>> [snip organized medicine jargon]
>
> This is what JanD(ishonest) calls jargon:
>
> Did you see the updated report?

No, and I don't care to read anything from organized medicine paid off
member Nicky EGO driven Bennett.



From: cathyb on

JanD wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:qtInf.14749$O05.10135(a)fe09.lga...
> > JanD wrote:
> >> "HCN" <hcn(a)nospam.com> wrote .
> >>
> >>>"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >>>>alexr wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Which are..? please continue Mark...
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, tell us more LIES.
> >>
> >> Right up HCN's alley!
> >>
> >> [snip organized medicine jargon]
> >
> > This is what JanD(ishonest) calls jargon:
> >
> > Did you see the updated report?
>
> No, and I don't care to read anything from organized medicine paid off
> member Nicky EGO driven Bennett.

Corker. Jan finally admits she bases her stance on alternative medicine
on deliberate ignorance.

From: Mark on
Her recent posts are leading me to believe that Jan really is coming
unglued. Well, more so than in the past, let's just say. I'm really
seeing some pathology in her posts. I mean...really. This is starting
to get pretty creepy, especially since she knows where I work, and she
only lives about 3 hours away. (Three and a half in an RV.)

Mark, MD

From: Mark Probert on
JanD wrote:

> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:fBAnf.8080$Kf4.2860(a)fe08.lga...
>
>> JanD wrote:
>>
>>> "Peter Moran" <pmoranATbordernet.com.au> wrote
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>> "alexr" <rojkov(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134431352.138227.33830(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> To be honest I don't feel comfortable discussing her case as I am
not a
>>>>> doctor. All I am is an individual who chooses to take matters in his
>>>>> own hands.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are actually interested in medical error statistics just
google
>>>>> it!
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> The above site comes one of the first.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is plenty of evidence on the internet that alternative methods
>>>>> work and work well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alexr,
>>>
>>> Allow me to clue you in to Peter Moran.
>>>
>>> He is so brainwashed, he is completely and totally dishonest.
>>
>>
>> JanD(eceiptful) never passes up an opportunity to trash anyone who
consistently proves her wrong.
>
>
>
> Poor name calling trashing, Mark Probert.


I did not trash you or call you names. I described your actions, which
are deceiptful and what you do.

> Peter Moran, didn't need my help, he proved himself to be completely
and totally dishonesty.


Nope. I have not seen that ever. I just had my eyes checked by my board
certified ophthalmologist and he said I see just fine.

BTW, we had a good laugh over advertising he received from an iridologist.

>>> He writes:
>>>
>>> All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman
>>>
>>>
>>>> said"I wonder what this berry does?".
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially
lethal gene defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical
research. So this is nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was
applied. It would be unusual these days for such issues to not be
addressed carefully by the researchers and the ethics committees to
which all clinical trials are submitted thesedays. We cannot know how
culpable the doctors are
>>>
>>>
>>>> from this rather emotive news item.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =========
>>>
>>> This has to do with a loving and caring volunteering teenager,
helping mankind.
>>>
>>> You may have heard about it. The article is no longer available,
but you can find it on the net.
>>>
>>> So I will post the many cover ups, the whole mess. Peter denied it
all. My comments are added.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger's
>>>
>>>
>>>> home in Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the
experiment was safe.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Documents
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> . Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
experiments. . March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings
about the gene therapy experiment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson's team had never
told him that anyone had ever raised questions about safety
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member,
Peter Moran.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED And that was just the
beginning. Federal investigators, pouring through Penn's records,
announced at the conference that they had made a series of startling
discoveries, raising questions about whether the doctors had covered up
problems and broken basic test rules.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the
experiment, several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse's got sick.
And two of them died.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (No coverup there)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn't get
visibly ill, if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction
called "grade 3," the experiment was supposed to be "halted"
immediately. Records show there were "grade 3" reactions in more than
one patient. The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and
got permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient
might have been the cause. The second time, they stopped, called and got
permission again, citing another unusual condition. But when it happened
a third time, they didn't stop, didn't call. Then, a fourth time. They
didn't stop or call then either
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (No coverups there).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> For their own safety, volunteers weren't supposed to have a
blood ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with
higher levels and without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70.
When Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but
records show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the
experiment, his reading was 114 - more than double the original safety
limit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (That's way cool huh Peter???)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES With so many red flags from the monkey
deaths to the reactions in other volunteers, even to Jesse's own ammonia
levels, Why had Dr. Wilson's team allowed the experiment to continue?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee
approved Dr. Wilson's arrangement with Genovo. In fact, the university
itself owned a piece of his company and stood to profit, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (Hmmmmmmmmm).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In a statement, the university acknowledged that some
information "should have been shared with the FDA sooner."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the
monkey deaths. There was no information given to Jesse or his family
about toxic results in prior patients. There was no information that
would allow Jesse and his family to make any kind of informed decision."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> He told congress that other private companies in the race for
cures had also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten
adverse reactions. But instead of sharing the information, government
rules allowed them to stamp those reactions "confidential," classifying
them as trade secrets to protect their research investments. So, while
the government knew about them, other researchers like Dr. Wilson and
volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (TRust the government!!!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "I was outraged," says Paul. "I had a right to know. Jesse had a
right to know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because
Dr. Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
deliberately violated regulations ****
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ***Dr. Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly
and deliberately violated regulations ***
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate
violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger's
death. At the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ****is still on the faculty****
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> (Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in
Congress, lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more
protection for medical volunteers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and
his family thought they could trust.*********
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Peter Moran
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In russia by the way there is no alternative medicine. Alternative is
>>>>> refered to as "Traditional". And there is "Official", that's the one
>>>>> that never makes any mistakes and is always right.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>