From: Mark Probert on
JanD wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:bAAnf.8078$Kf4.6250(a)fe08.lga...
>
>>alexr wrote:
>>
>>>Read... compared...applied... Can't come to a different from
>>>al-Bayatis's conclusion.
>>
>>I can only lead you to a clue, but I cannot make you think. You spent all
>>of 16 minutes....
>>
>>I'll give you a hist..(sic).al-Bayati says that EJ could not have had
>>pneumonia, since pneumonia requires that there be consolidation in the
>>lungs...and the M/E said there was none...
>>
>>The M/E's report, however, specifically states that there was lung
>>consolidation.
>>
>>Thus, since lung consolidation is a marker for pneumonia (according to
>>al-Bayati), she had pneumonia, as suspected by her pediatrician days prior
>>to her death.
>>
>>There are many other inconsistencies in al-Bayati's report. I suggest you
>>begin reading some of the medical blogs. Start with:
>>
>>http://oracLIES
>>
>>and follow all LIES.

JanD(eceptively) changed LINK to LIES.

> He LIES for Mark Probert.

Jan has to trash anyone who proves her wrong, as she is incapable of
intelligent discussion. However, I will try it...

Jan, even you can read portions of al-Bayati's report and find that
portion pertaining to lung consolodation. Now, take his words and read
the M/E's report. al-Bayati clearly states that there was NO lung
consolodation, while the M/E's report says there was.

Was al-Bayati lying when he said there was none, or was he merely
mistaken? There is no third choice, except to ignore the question.


From: Mark Probert on
HCN wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:runnf.7413$Kf4.3591(a)fe08.lga...
>
>>alexr wrote:
>>
>>>Which are..? please continue Mark...
>>>
>>
>>http://catallarchy.net/blog/archives/2005/11/29/hiv-dissidents-continued/
>>
>>http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-content/images/A_report_on_Eliza.pdf
>>
>>Read...al-Bayati's claims, then compare them to what the ME's report
>>actually says...then apply what the ME's report actually says to
>>al-Bayati's claims and you cannot escape the conclusion that Eliza died of
>>AIDS related pneumonia.
>>
>
>
> Did you see the updated report? Since he was able to read the actual
> coroner's report, Dr. Bennett was able to see where al-Bayati really screwed
> up!
>
> http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-content/images/A_report_on_Eliza_Ver2.pdf

Did al-Bayati think he could get away with this? I think so. He
understands the psychology of the JanD's of this world and knows that
these people will accept anything that trashes real medicine and never
change their minds, even when shown that the trashing was based on gross
misrepresentations.

I am coming to the conclusion that JanD, Maggiore, et al, are not
perpetrators, but victims of a form of brain washing.



From: Mark Probert on
JanD wrote:
> "HCN" <hcn(a)nospam.com> wrote .
>
>>"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>
>
>>>alexr wrote:
>>>
>>>>Which are..? please continue Mark...
>
>
> Yes, tell us more LIES.
>
> Right up HCN's alley!
>
> [snip organized medicine jargon]

This is what JanD(ishonest) calls jargon:

Did you see the updated report? Since he was able to read the actual
coroner's report, Dr. Bennett was able to see where al-Bayati really
screwed
up!

http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-content/images/A_report_on_Eliza_Ver2.pdf
From: HCN on

"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:CsInf.14748$O05.228(a)fe09.lga...
> HCN wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>> news:runnf.7413$Kf4.3591(a)fe08.lga...
>>
>>>alexr wrote:
>>>
>>>>Which are..? please continue Mark...
>>>>
>>>
>>>http://catallarchy.net/blog/archives/2005/11/29/hiv-dissidents-continued/
>>>
>>>http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-content/images/A_report_on_Eliza.pdf
>>>
>>>Read...al-Bayati's claims, then compare them to what the ME's report
>>>actually says...then apply what the ME's report actually says to
>>>al-Bayati's claims and you cannot escape the conclusion that Eliza died
>>>of AIDS related pneumonia.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Did you see the updated report? Since he was able to read the actual
>> coroner's report, Dr. Bennett was able to see where al-Bayati really
>> screwed up!
>>
>> http://catallarchy.net/blog/wp-content/images/A_report_on_Eliza_Ver2.pdf
>
> Did al-Bayati think he could get away with this? I think so. He
> understands the psychology of the JanD's of this world and knows that
> these people will accept anything that trashes real medicine and never
> change their minds, even when shown that the trashing was based on gross
> misrepresentations.
>
> I am coming to the conclusion that JanD, Maggiore, et al, are not
> perpetrators, but victims of a form of brain washing.

I would have too, except that I saw Maggiore post a review of her own book
on Amazon.com on Oct. 29th. It is like she was trying to combat the bad
publicity that was damaging book sales.


>
>
>


From: JanD on

"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote

lies as usual

> JanD wrote:
>> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
>> news:fBAnf.8080$Kf4.2860(a)fe08.lga...
>>
>>>JanD wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Peter Moran" <pmoranATbordernet.com.au> wrote
>>>>
>>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"alexr" <rojkov(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1134431352.138227.33830(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>To be honest I don't feel comfortable discussing her case as I am not
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>doctor. All I am is an individual who chooses to take matters in his
>>>>>>own hands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you are actually interested in medical error statistics just google
>>>>>>it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The above site comes one of the first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is plenty of evidence on the internet that alternative methods
>>>>>>work and work well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Alexr,
>>>>
>>>>Allow me to clue you in to Peter Moran.
>>>>
>>>>He is so brainwashed, he is completely and totally dishonest.
>>>
>>>JanD(eceiptful) never passes up an opportunity to trash anyone who
>>>consistently proves her wrong.
>>
>>
>> Poor name calling trashing, Mark Probert.

>
>> Peter Moran, didn't need my help, he proved himself to be completely and
>> totally dishonesty.

>
>>>>He writes:
>>>>
>>>>All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>said"I wonder what this berry does?".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal
>>>>>gene defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical
>>>>>research. So this is nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied.
>>>>>It would be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed
>>>>>carefully by the researchers and the ethics committees to which all
>>>>>clinical trials are submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable
>>>>>the doctors are
>>>>
>>>>>from this rather emotive news item.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=========
>>>>
>>>>This has to do with a loving and caring volunteering teenager, helping
>>>>mankind.
>>>>
>>>>You may have heard about it. The article is no longer available, but you
>>>>can find it on the net.
>>>>
>>>>So I will post the many cover ups, the whole mess. Peter denied it all.
>>>>My comments are added.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>home in Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the
>>>>>experiment was safe.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Documents
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>. Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
>>>>>experiments. . March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings
>>>>>about the gene therapy experiment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson's team had never told
>>>>>him that anyone had ever raised questions about safety
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter
>>>>>Moran.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED And that was just the beginning.
>>>>>Federal investigators, pouring through Penn's records, announced at the
>>>>>conference that they had made a series of startling discoveries,
>>>>>raising questions about whether the doctors had covered up problems and
>>>>>broken basic test rules.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the
>>>>>experiment, several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse's got sick.
>>>>>And two of them died.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(No coverup there)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn't get
>>>>>visibly ill, if tests showed that any of them had a significant
>>>>>reaction called "grade 3," the experiment was supposed to be "halted"
>>>>>immediately. Records show there were "grade 3" reactions in more than
>>>>>one patient. The first time, doctors stopped, called the government and
>>>>>got permission to continue, saying an unusual condition with the
>>>>>patient might have been the cause. The second time, they stopped,
>>>>>called and got permission again, citing another unusual condition. But
>>>>>when it happened a third time, they didn't stop, didn't call. Then, a
>>>>>fourth time. They didn't stop or call then either
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(No coverups there).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For their own safety, volunteers weren't supposed to have a blood
>>>>> ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher
>>>>> levels and without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70. When
>>>>> Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but records
>>>>> show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the
>>>>> experiment, his reading was 114 - more than double the original safety
>>>>> limit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(That's way cool huh Peter???)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to
>>>>>the reactions in other volunteers, even to Jesse's own ammonia levels,
>>>>>Why had Dr. Wilson's team allowed the experiment to continue?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved
>>>>> Dr. Wilson's arrangement with Genovo. In fact, the university itself
>>>>> owned a piece of his company and stood to profit, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(Hmmmmmmmmm).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
>>>>> "should have been shared with the FDA sooner."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey
>>>>>deaths. There was no information given to Jesse or his family about
>>>>>toxic results in prior patients. There was no information that would
>>>>>allow Jesse and his family to make any kind of informed decision."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> He told congress that other private companies in the race for
>>>>> cures had also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten
>>>>> adverse reactions. But instead of sharing the information, government
>>>>> rules allowed them to stamp those reactions "confidential,"
>>>>> classifying them as trade secrets to protect their research
>>>>> investments. So, while the government knew about them, other
>>>>> researchers like Dr. Wilson and volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were
>>>>> never allowed to see them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(TRust the government!!!)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"I was outraged," says Paul. "I had a right to know. Jesse had a right
>>>>>to know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr.
>>>>>Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
>>>>>deliberately violated regulations ****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>***Dr. Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
>>>>>deliberately violated regulations ***
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate
>>>>>violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger's death.
>>>>> At the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>****is still on the faculty****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
>>>>>lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for
>>>>>medical volunteers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his
>>>>>family thought they could trust.*********
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Jan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Peter Moran
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In russia by the way there is no alternative medicine. Alternative is
>>>>>>refered to as "Traditional". And there is "Official", that's the one
>>>>>>that never makes any mistakes and is always right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>