From: JanD on

"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:fBAnf.8080$Kf4.2860(a)fe08.lga...
> JanD wrote:
>> "Peter Moran" <pmoranATbordernet.com.au> wrote
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>"alexr" <rojkov(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1134431352.138227.33830(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>To be honest I don't feel comfortable discussing her case as I am not a
>>>>doctor. All I am is an individual who chooses to take matters in his
>>>>own hands.
>>>>
>>>>If you are actually interested in medical error statistics just google
>>>>it!
>>>>
>>>>http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
>>>>
>>>>The above site comes one of the first.
>>>>
>>>>There is plenty of evidence on the internet that alternative methods
>>>>work and work well.
>>
>>
>> Alexr,
>>
>> Allow me to clue you in to Peter Moran.
>>
>> He is so brainwashed, he is completely and totally dishonest.
>
> JanD(eceiptful) never passes up an opportunity to trash anyone who
> consistently proves her wrong.

Poor name calling trashing, Mark Probert.

Peter Moran, didn't need my help, he proved himself to be completely and
totally dishonesty.

>
>>
>> He writes:
>>
>> All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman
>>
>>>said"I wonder what this berry does?".
>>
>>
>>>Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal gene
>>>defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical research. So
>>>this is nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .
>>
>>
>>
>>>It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied. It
>>>would be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed carefully
>>>by the researchers and the ethics committees to which all clinical trials
>>>are submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable the doctors are
>>>from this rather emotive news item.
>>
>>
>> =========
>>
>> This has to do with a loving and caring volunteering teenager, helping
>> mankind.
>>
>> You may have heard about it. The article is no longer available, but you
>> can find it on the net.
>>
>> So I will post the many cover ups, the whole mess. Peter denied it all.
>> My comments are added.
>>
>>
>>
>> Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger's
>>
>>>home in Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the experiment
>>>was safe.*
>>
>>
>>
>>> Documents
>>
>>
>>
>>> . Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
>>> experiments. . March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings
>>> about the gene therapy experiment.
>>
>>
>>
>>>(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>
>>
>>
>>>The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson's team had never told him
>>>that anyone had ever raised questions about safety
>>
>>
>>
>>>(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter
>>>Moran.)
>>
>>
>>
>>>ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED And that was just the beginning.
>>>Federal investigators, pouring through Penn's records, announced at the
>>>conference that they had made a series of startling discoveries, raising
>>>questions about whether the doctors had covered up problems and broken
>>>basic test rules.
>>
>>
>>
>>>In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment,
>>>several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse's got sick. And two of
>>>them died.
>>
>>
>>
>>>(No coverup there)
>>
>>
>>
>>>The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn't get visibly
>>>ill, if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction called
>>>"grade 3," the experiment was supposed to be "halted" immediately.
>>>Records show there were "grade 3" reactions in more than one patient. The
>>>first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got permission to
>>>continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient might have been
>>>the cause. The second time, they stopped, called and got permission
>>>again, citing another unusual condition. But when it happened a third
>>>time, they didn't stop, didn't call. Then, a fourth time. They didn't
>>>stop or call then either
>>
>>
>>
>>>(No coverups there).
>>
>>
>>
>>> For their own safety, volunteers weren't supposed to have a blood
>>> ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher
>>> levels and without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70. When
>>> Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but records
>>> show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the experiment,
>>> his reading was 114 - more than double the original safety limit.
>>
>>
>>
>>>(That's way cool huh Peter???)
>>
>>
>>
>>>HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to
>>>the reactions in other volunteers, even to Jesse's own ammonia levels,
>>>Why had Dr. Wilson's team allowed the experiment to continue?
>>
>>
>>
>>>(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)
>>
>>
>>
>>> At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved
>>> Dr. Wilson's arrangement with Genovo. In fact, the university itself
>>> owned a piece of his company and stood to profit, too.
>>
>>
>>
>>>(Hmmmmmmmmm).
>>
>>
>>
>>> In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
>>> "should have been shared with the FDA sooner."
>>
>>
>>
>>>(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>
>>
>>
>>>There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey
>>>deaths. There was no information given to Jesse or his family about toxic
>>>results in prior patients. There was no information that would allow
>>>Jesse and his family to make any kind of informed decision."
>>
>>
>>
>>>(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)
>>
>>
>>
>>>CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS
>>
>>
>>
>>> He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures
>>> had also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse
>>> reactions. But instead of sharing the information, government rules
>>> allowed them to stamp those reactions "confidential," classifying them
>>> as trade secrets to protect their research investments. So, while the
>>> government knew about them, other researchers like Dr. Wilson and
>>> volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.
>>
>>
>>
>>>(TRust the government!!!)
>>
>>
>>
>>>"I was outraged," says Paul. "I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to
>>>know.
>>
>>
>>
>>>(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).
>>
>>
>>
>>>***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr.
>>>Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
>>>deliberately violated regulations ****
>>
>>
>>
>>>REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>>***Dr. Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
>>>deliberately violated regulations ***
>>
>>
>>
>>>(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate
>>>violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>
>>
>>
>>> This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger's death.
>>> At the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson
>>
>>
>>
>>>****is still on the faculty****
>>
>>
>>
>>>(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>
>>
>>
>>>****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****
>>
>>
>>
>>>****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***
>>
>>
>>
>>>but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
>>>lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for
>>>medical volunteers.
>>
>>
>>
>>>******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his
>>>family thought they could trust.*********
>>
>>
>>
>>>Jan
>>
>>
>>>Peter Moran
>>>
>>>
>>>>In russia by the way there is no alternative medicine. Alternative is
>>>>refered to as "Traditional". And there is "Official", that's the one
>>>>that never makes any mistakes and is always right.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

From: JanD on

"Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:bAAnf.8078$Kf4.6250(a)fe08.lga...
> alexr wrote:
>> Read... compared...applied... Can't come to a different from
>> al-Bayatis's conclusion.
>
> I can only lead you to a clue, but I cannot make you think. You spent all
> of 16 minutes....
>
> I'll give you a hist..(sic).al-Bayati says that EJ could not have had
> pneumonia, since pneumonia requires that there be consolidation in the
> lungs...and the M/E said there was none...
>
> The M/E's report, however, specifically states that there was lung
> consolidation.
>
> Thus, since lung consolidation is a marker for pneumonia (according to
> al-Bayati), she had pneumonia, as suspected by her pediatrician days prior
> to her death.
>
> There are many other inconsistencies in al-Bayati's report. I suggest you
> begin reading some of the medical blogs. Start with:
>
> http://oracLIES
>
> and follow all LIES.

He LIES for Mark Probert.


From: JanD on

"HCN" <hcn(a)nospam.com> wrote .
>
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message

>> alexr wrote:
>>> Which are..? please continue Mark...

Yes, tell us more LIES.

Right up HCN's alley!

[snip organized medicine jargon]


From: Mark Probert on
JanD wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert(a)lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
> news:fBAnf.8080$Kf4.2860(a)fe08.lga...
>
>>JanD wrote:
>>
>>>"Peter Moran" <pmoranATbordernet.com.au> wrote
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>"alexr" <rojkov(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1134431352.138227.33830(a)g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>To be honest I don't feel comfortable discussing her case as I am not a
>>>>>doctor. All I am is an individual who chooses to take matters in his
>>>>>own hands.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you are actually interested in medical error statistics just google
>>>>>it!
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>The above site comes one of the first.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is plenty of evidence on the internet that alternative methods
>>>>>work and work well.
>>>
>>>
>>>Alexr,
>>>
>>>Allow me to clue you in to Peter Moran.
>>>
>>>He is so brainwashed, he is completely and totally dishonest.
>>
>>JanD(eceiptful) never passes up an opportunity to trash anyone who
>>consistently proves her wrong.
>
>
> Poor name calling trashing, Mark Probert.

I did not trash you or call you names. I described your actions, which
are deceiptful and what you do.

> Peter Moran, didn't need my help, he proved himself to be completely and
> totally dishonesty.

Nope. I have not seen that ever. I just had my eyes checked by my board
certified ophthalmologist and he said I see just fine.

BTW, we had a good laugh over advertising he received from an iridologist.

>>>He writes:
>>>
>>>All medical advances have entailed risk, ever since the first caveman
>>>
>>>
>>>>said"I wonder what this berry does?".
>>>
>>>
>>>>Using retroviruses to try and correct lethal and potentially lethal gene
>>>>defects is a very legitimate and logic alavenue of medical research. So
>>>>this is nothing to do with "conspiracies", "coverups" .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>It is a matter of the quality of informed consent that was applied. It
>>>>would be unusual these days for such issues to not be addressed carefully
>>>>by the researchers and the ethics committees to which all clinical trials
>>>>are submitted thesedays. We cannot know how culpable the doctors are
>>>
>>>>from this rather emotive news item.
>>>
>>>
>>>=========
>>>
>>>This has to do with a loving and caring volunteering teenager, helping
>>>mankind.
>>>
>>>You may have heard about it. The article is no longer available, but you
>>>can find it on the net.
>>>
>>>So I will post the many cover ups, the whole mess. Peter denied it all.
>>>My comments are added.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Years earlier, a scientist just a few miles away from the Gelsinger's
>>>
>>>
>>>>home in Tucson had raised serious questions about whether the experiment
>>>>was safe.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Documents
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>. Feb. 8, 2002: FDA letter, attempt to ban Dr. Wilson from other
>>>>experiments. . March 3, 2000: FDA Warning Letter, original findings
>>>>about the gene therapy experiment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(No coverups there,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The trouble is, Paul Gelsinger says, Dr. Wilson's team had never told him
>>>>that anyone had ever raised questions about safety
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(That's fine and dandy according to organized medicine member, Peter
>>>>Moran.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>ADVERSE REACTIONS WERE NOT REPORTED And that was just the beginning.
>>>>Federal investigators, pouring through Penn's records, announced at the
>>>>conference that they had made a series of startling discoveries, raising
>>>>questions about whether the doctors had covered up problems and broken
>>>>basic test rules.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In fact, just a few months before Jesse had signed up for the experiment,
>>>>several monkeys given viruses similar to Jesse's got sick. And two of
>>>>them died.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(No coverup there)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The rules for the experiment said: Even if volunteers didn't get visibly
>>>>ill, if tests showed that any of them had a significant reaction called
>>>>"grade 3," the experiment was supposed to be "halted" immediately.
>>>>Records show there were "grade 3" reactions in more than one patient. The
>>>>first time, doctors stopped, called the government and got permission to
>>>>continue, saying an unusual condition with the patient might have been
>>>>the cause. The second time, they stopped, called and got permission
>>>>again, citing another unusual condition. But when it happened a third
>>>>time, they didn't stop, didn't call. Then, a fourth time. They didn't
>>>>stop or call then either
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(No coverups there).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> For their own safety, volunteers weren't supposed to have a blood
>>>>ammonia level higher than 50. But people were coming in with higher
>>>>levels and without proper approval. The limit was raised to 70. When
>>>>Jesse signed up over the summer, he was within the limits, but records
>>>>show that when Penn doctors tested him, just days before the experiment,
>>>>his reading was 114 - more than double the original safety limit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(That's way cool huh Peter???)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>HIGH FINANCIAL STAKES With so many red flags from the monkey deaths to
>>>>the reactions in other volunteers, even to Jesse's own ammonia levels,
>>>>Why had Dr. Wilson's team allowed the experiment to continue?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(Wonder if Peter can answer this question?)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> At the University of Pennsylvania, the conflict committee approved
>>>>Dr. Wilson's arrangement with Genovo. In fact, the university itself
>>>>owned a piece of his company and stood to profit, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(Hmmmmmmmmm).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> In a statement, the university acknowledged that some information
>>>>"should have been shared with the FDA sooner."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(Just a minor little slip,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>There was no information given to Jesse or his family about the monkey
>>>>deaths. There was no information given to Jesse or his family about toxic
>>>>results in prior patients. There was no information that would allow
>>>>Jesse and his family to make any kind of informed decision."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(Peter STILL can't see any coverup!!!! NO dishonesty!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>CONFIDENTIAL REPORTS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> He told congress that other private companies in the race for cures
>>>>had also been doing gene therapy experiments and had also gotten adverse
>>>>reactions. But instead of sharing the information, government rules
>>>>allowed them to stamp those reactions "confidential," classifying them
>>>>as trade secrets to protect their research investments. So, while the
>>>>government knew about them, other researchers like Dr. Wilson and
>>>>volunteers like Jesse Gelsinger were never allowed to see them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(TRust the government!!!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"I was outraged," says Paul. "I had a right to know. Jesse had a right to
>>>>know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(Oh my,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,emotions).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>***In February, the Food and Drug Administration said that because Dr.
>>>>Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
>>>>deliberately violated regulations ****
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>REPEAT FOR THE HARD HEADED!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>***Dr. Wilson filed "false and misleading" reports and "repeatedly and
>>>>deliberately violated regulations ***
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(No coverups,,,,,,,,,,no fraud,,,,,,,,,,no deliberate
>>>>violations,,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This week marks the third anniversary of Jesse Gelsinger's death.
>>>>At the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Wilson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>****is still on the faculty****
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>(Soooooooooo in organized medicine,,,,,,,,,,,)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>****Filing *false and misleading reports* is A OK,,,,,,,,,,,,****
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>****REPEATED and DELIBERATE violations,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,is A OK.***
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>but no longer in charge of its gene therapy program. And, in Congress,
>>>>lawmakers are still debating legislation to provide more protection for
>>>>medical volunteers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>******in the end, whether Jesse was betrayed by the doctors he and his
>>>>family thought they could trust.*********
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jan
>>>
>>>
>>>>Peter Moran
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In russia by the way there is no alternative medicine. Alternative is
>>>>>refered to as "Traditional". And there is "Official", that's the one
>>>>>that never makes any mistakes and is always right.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>
From: Mark Probert on
alexr wrote:
> Mark,
>
> I will much rather read books by
>
> Sandra Cabot
> http://shurl.org/uwXVA
>
> Andreas Moritz
> http://ener-chi.com/
> http://shurl.org/YZxTJ
> http://shurl.org/FsjNS
>
> Richard Schulze
> http://shurl.org/aTiHu
>
> And read other forums and news groups. Preferably those that are
> moderated.
>
> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/gallstones/
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfood/
>
> and so on.

I see you like reading fiction. Do you read anything that is fact based?

> You, you need to stay here making sure that people get lost in the
> gobbledygook that your blog and the linked pharma blogsphere is.

You can call what you do not understand goggledygook, but, it remains true.

> I will reply to your messages however prompting people to look beyoung
> the chaff.

With their blinders on.