From: Peter Parry on
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 18:48:36 -0000, "john" <nospam(a)bt.com> wrote:

>"Peter Parry" <peter(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>>
>>>Study arm to arm vaccination which was 75% of vaccination in 1890.
>>
>> I hate to have to break this to you but it isn't 1890 any more.
>
>You claimed smallpox vax never spread syphilis, eg into Hawaii.

Actually I asked for proof of your rather silly claim. I presume you
have none?

>> What relevance do you think this quotation, assuming it is correct,
>> has to today?
>
>You claimed smallpox vax never spread syphilis, eg into Hawaii.

I didn't say that, but it certainly didn't. Syphilis is a sexually
transmitted disease caused by a spirochete Treponema pallidum.
Treponema pallidum usually cannot survive outside the human body for
more than an hour or two.

Of the following two possible causes which strikes you as being more
likely:-

1. Syphilis was endemic amongst the crews of the first ships to reach
Hawaii. The first thing sailors looked for when they landed was
female companionship. Syphilis is a sexual transmitted disease. The
natives caught Syphilis from the sailors.

2. Syphilis was never passed on by visiting sailors who were all
aware of their diseases and pious god fearing men who would not dream
of touching a native female out of wedlock. All syphilis in Hawaii
arrived in vaccines protected from perishing in some unknown,
untested, undiscovered and unrepeatable way.

>> Can't you find anything less than 140 years old? I realise things
>> like bone waggling and Homeopathy have not advanced since then but
>> almost everyone else has.

>Oh really, still to cure anything apart from bacterial infections. And
>history, annoying isn't it when it demolishes 150 years of smallpox vax, as
>mass death agent. Without saving one single life from smallpox

Could you rephrase that in English as I have no idea what you are
trying to say.

>> All this may be of interest to students of the history of medicine but
>> really, is this all you have to rely upon?

>Yes, history, annoying isn't it when it demolishes 150 years of smallpox vax

If it did it might be. However, it doesn't. Nor does quoting
pamphlets from the defunct anti vaccination league which ended it's
days as one person in a flat in Lebanon Road in Croydon,Surrey (for
the Americans, not a dreadfully distinguished neighbourhood) having
morphed into the Howey Foundation [against vaccination] Ltd.

Rather amusingly the educationally challenged team at "Jabs" quote
one Gary Krasner as thinking the Anti-vaccination League is impartial.
"A report on Vaccination and Immunization, published by The Howey
Foundation, Surrey, England (which takes an impartial look at all
vaccination procedures) stated flatly: "It is now accepted that
paralytic poliomyelitis was precipitated by diphtheria vaccines and
tonsillectomies"
(Medical Myths Die Hard -Part I By Gary Krasner (09/22/06))

Such is the quality of references you have to use.

Similarly monographs by employees of said League from well over a
century ago are now amusing social artifacts but hardly objective
proof of anything.

You really should understand that it is only Homeopathy and its ilk
which are preserved in Aspic from the 1800's. Everyone else has
carried on learning. I don't know of a single doctor who relies upon
medical textbooks from the century before last to make treatment
decisions yet homeopaths, bonewagglers and similar use them every
day.


From: PeterB - Original on
On Dec 30 2009, 5:36 pm, Peter Parry <pe...(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:27:39 -0000, "john" <nos...(a)bt.com> wrote:
> >Good-Bye Germ Theory by Dr. William Trebing
>
> "Dr" Trebing appears to be a jobbing chiropractor who believes in
> "applied kinesiology" and the activator method , a commercial
> diagnostic and treatment system based on the belief that differences
> in leg length indicate the need for spinal adjustments.(Please ask
> about your health insurance coverage when you arrange your first
> visit.)
>
> How likely is it do you think that he really has any idea (other than
> financial) about the subject of his book?

How likely is it do you think that you would have made such a comment
without first reading it for yourself?
From: PeterB - Original on
On Dec 31 2009, 10:32 pm, "Peter B" <origin...(a)frag.com> wrote:
> "john" <nos...(a)bt.com> wrote in message
>
> news:IbOdnRPQusT7ZqHWnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>
> > "According to a survey made in 1946 regarding the percentage of polio
> > recoveries under the various methods of healing we have this
> > interesting report: 91 % to 100% recover under certain Chiropractic
> > treatment-(not all chiropractors understand this method),  97% to 100%
> > recover under correct Hygienic treatment, 72% under Nurse Kenny
> > treatment, 35% recover with no professional care, 17% under medical
> > care."----Eleanor McBean
>
> >http://www.whale.to/v/poliogirl.html
>
> In 1959, an article in the Journal of the National Chiropractic
> Association disagreed with the surgeon general:
>
>   "The test tube fight against polio has failed....The death rate has
> increased among children who have been vaccinated....There is no vaccine
> against fatigue or a traumatic lesion in the anterior cord or motor
> cells....In the mild, and especially in the more acute, chiropractic is
> supreme. Adjustments of the entire spine will break up the cord
> congestion, if given within the 3 days of grace given by Nature.
> Chiropractic aids Nature....The fatigue of acute polio can be caused by
> other factors, such as whooping cough and smallpox vaccines. The latter
> can cause vaccinosyphilis in the pure blood of children."
>
> Encouraged by the leadership of the chiropractic profession,
> chiropractors advertised chiropractic adjustments as a method of
> treating and preventing polio, recommending "early treatment before it
> is too late." A chiropractic organization called We Walk Again
> proclaimed that maximum recovery from polio was found only in
> chiropractic .
>
> Time and science have proven chiropractors wrong. Today, thanks to the
> use of vaccination, polio has been nearly eradicated: "The present rate
> of polio is less than one hundredth its lowest level before oral
> immunization programs began, and public health officials have predicted
> worldwide eradication by the year 2000." Immunization is one of the most
> successful public health measures ever put into effect and is
> responsible for the control or eradication of such deadly communicable
> diseases as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, and whooping cough.
>
> end quote.

sometimes, everybody is wrong.

From: PeterB - Original on
On Jan 2, 1:40 pm, Peter Parry <pe...(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:35:36 -0000, "john" <nos...(a)bt.com> wrote:
> >"Peter Parry" <pe...(a)wpp.ltd.uk> wrote
> >> Another unproven unverifiable claim from an unknown source by a
> >> peddler of quack medicine.  Is this the best you have?
> >Study arm to arm vaccination which was 75% of vaccination in 1890.
>
> I hate to have to break this to you but it isn't 1890 any more.
>
> > "I should be sorry to see a leper cook, and I go further than that.   In
> >vaccinating, I think hardly a medical man would take vaccine lymph from the
> >arm of a leper infant.   I know it has been our practice for the last twenty
> >years not to do so." ---1883 Dr Henry Ebden, President of the (South
> >African) Medical Board
>
> What relevance do you think this quotation, assuming it is correct,
> has to today?  
>
> >> Luminary of the now long defunct National Anti-Vaccination League in
> >> the 1960's and disciple of the unhinged Miss Lily Loat.  Remind us,
> >> what were his qualifications and training?
>
> >You mean her,
>
> I mean Dole, I know Loat had no qualifications or experience
> whatsoever as she spent her life as secretary to the league.
>
> >and and that is ad hominem,
>
> No, it is asking for the qualifications of the person making a
> quotation you are relying upon.  It would be nice to see the report
> mentioned but I doubt it ever existed.  Victorian England had many odd
> societies such as the anti vaccination league and all relied upon
> hectoring pamphlets and letters to promote their cause.  Very few were
> noted for the accuracy of their content.  
>
> > try
> >Crookshank, Russell, Hadwen,  etc
>
> Can't you find anything less than 140 years old?  I realise things
> like bone waggling and Homeopathy have not advanced since then but
> almost everyone else has.
>
> >CROOKSHANK, EDGAR MARCH, M.B.
>
> Would that be the Crookshank who thought cowpox and smallpox were
> quite different so advocated a more dangerous vaccine made from
> smallpox instead?
>
> Hadwen, member of the Plymouth Brethren and  the London Association
> for the Prevention of Premature Burial. A skilled big-game hunter and
> vegetarian.known for his denial of the germ theory of disease.
>
> All this may be of interest to students of the history of medicine but
> really, is this all you have to rely upon?

I personally don't rely on these historical quotes to know that
vaccine is a speculative (at best) medical intervention. The fact
that vaccine was responsible for 3.5%, at most, of the decline in
disease-related mortality during most of the last century (ref.
"Public Health at the Crossroads," by R. Beaglehole and R Bonita, pg
43] means that the vast improvement in the severity of infectious
disease response occurred *without* vaccine. Remember, most vaccines
were not available during most of the 20th century. No one can say
with any certainty whatsoever whether vaccine was responsible for even
1% of such declines. And, in the absence of properly done RCT studies
on adequate populations for sufficient periods of time, we also don't
know much at all about vaccine safety. I don't suppose you would like
to cite any data that would contradict any of this?
From: Peter B on

"PeterB - Original" <pkm(a)mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:eaf1589c-e96e-48c7-8283-8cdde28ba305(a)r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 31 2009, 10:32 pm, "Peter B" <origin...(a)frag.com> wrote:
> "john" <nos...(a)bt.com> wrote in message
>
> news:IbOdnRPQusT7ZqHWnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>
> > "According to a survey made in 1946 regarding the percentage of
> > polio
> > recoveries under the various methods of healing we have this
> > interesting report: 91 % to 100% recover under certain Chiropractic
> > treatment-(not all chiropractors understand this method), 97% to
> > 100%
> > recover under correct Hygienic treatment, 72% under Nurse Kenny
> > treatment, 35% recover with no professional care, 17% under medical
> > care."----Eleanor McBean
>
> >http://www.whale.to/v/poliogirl.html
>
> In 1959, an article in the Journal of the National Chiropractic
> Association disagreed with the surgeon general:
>
> "The test tube fight against polio has failed....The death rate has
> increased among children who have been vaccinated....There is no
> vaccine
> against fatigue or a traumatic lesion in the anterior cord or motor
> cells....In the mild, and especially in the more acute, chiropractic
> is
> supreme. Adjustments of the entire spine will break up the cord
> congestion, if given within the 3 days of grace given by Nature.
> Chiropractic aids Nature....The fatigue of acute polio can be caused
> by
> other factors, such as whooping cough and smallpox vaccines. The
> latter
> can cause vaccinosyphilis in the pure blood of children."
>
> Encouraged by the leadership of the chiropractic profession,
> chiropractors advertised chiropractic adjustments as a method of
> treating and preventing polio, recommending "early treatment before it
> is too late." A chiropractic organization called We Walk Again
> proclaimed that maximum recovery from polio was found only in
> chiropractic .
>
> Time and science have proven chiropractors wrong. Today, thanks to the
> use of vaccination, polio has been nearly eradicated: "The present
> rate
> of polio is less than one hundredth its lowest level before oral
> immunization programs began, and public health officials have
> predicted
> worldwide eradication by the year 2000." Immunization is one of the
> most
> successful public health measures ever put into effect and is
> responsible for the control or eradication of such deadly communicable
> diseases as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, and whooping cough.
>
> end quote.

sometimes, everybody is wrong.
===============================
Inane comment.


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